Posted on 03/23/2005 5:45:14 PM PST by freeholland
They are all a bunch of sheep, including the pres. They do nothing to protect our border, allow unconstitutional decisions to stand, grow government and treat us, their hard working constituents, like children. I am finally done with the republican party - come hell or high water I will vote for the Constitution party from now on.
"I am finally done with the republican party - come hell or high water I will vote for the Constitution party from now on."
One reason to stay would be to vote in the GOP primaries. If a reasonably conservative candidate doesn't make it through, then it would be appropriate to put votes elsewhere during the election. Isn't that the only way for the base to shape the Party?
I wrote: "As it is, the Republicans have passed their ENTIRE economic agenda, and have wavered on the ONLY part of their agenda that is truly pro-life: the nuclear option."
You responded: "They have achieved their economic agenda, while America is still a welfare state? And with the largest federal government in history? You must have an interesting set of measures."
Welfare reform was passed by a Republican Congress. So, we have the Welfare system that Newt Gingrich and the Republican Party in Congress wanted. Perhaps YOU think that Republicans should abolish welfare completely. But that is not and was not their agenda. They got their agenda through the Congress they controlled. Bill Clinton signed that bill, but the Welfare System of the United States as it currently exists was devised by the Republican Party. That IS their agenda. Just not yours.
The Republican Congress, at the behest of a Republican President, expanded Medicare to cover prescription drugs. Perhaps you don't like the Medicare/Medicaid welfare state philosophically. Understandable. But the Medicare/Medicaid welfare state paying for prescription drugs is a REPUBLICAN agenda item, proposed by and passed by a Republican White House and Republican Congress. Again, that IS their agenda. Just not yours.
Three rounds of income tax cuts.
Elimination of the death tax.
Dramatic reduction of capital gains and dividends taxation: this was the Republican agenda and was passed. I assume you approve.
Social Security partial - not complete, and certainly not abolition! - is the Republican Party agenda. Again, you may philosophically be opposed to the concept of government pensions and Social Security, but that's YOUR agenda. The REPUBLICAN PARTY agenda is that Social Security is good and necessary, and should be left alone for everybody over 55. For everyone else, a PORTION, only of Social Security taxes should be able to be set aside in private accounts, but all the rest should still go to regular old Social Security, with its government pensions and social insurance.
I don't have an interesting set of measures. I look at what the Republicans actually propose, legislate, and state they are for as a party in actual power. I think perhaps you have a set of philosophical beliefs about what government should be and should do, and believe that the Republican Party agenda is those believes. But it seems to me a strange and subjective set of measures to complain that the Republicans haven't gotten their agenda because there's still a welfare state, when actually the current Welfare Law, and Medicare Drug law, are Republican laws drafted by Republican Congresses.
Perhaps you discern a hidden INTENT among Republicans, and think that these good intentions you perceive are the REAL Republican agenda. I'd say, first, that good intentions are good for nothing, what matters is execution and carry through. But more importantly, I'd say that the Republicans actually intended the bills they drafted and passed. They never intended to end welfare or Medicare, but only to reform them somewhat. I think what you want philosophically is something other than what Republicanism is.
Pro-lifers are waking up to that same reality on a different vector this week.
"I am finally done with the republican party - come hell or high water I will vote for the Constitution party from now on."
I wouldn't do that yet.
Wait to see what the Senate does on the nuclear option.
They may understand that the Republican majority is going to fall apart at the grass roots if they don't pass it, and that may motivate the waverers to vote for it. Then there will be an increasingly conservative judiciary, and things can perhaps start to move in the direction you desire.
If they fail on the nuclear option, that will mean there is actually no HOPE of change, and at that point it is reasonable to go vote for a third party which also has no hope of changing anything, because if the Republicans have the power and won't do it, you are still at zero and no worse off being at zero among different folks who didn't betray you.
But the Republicans haven't betrayed you yet.
The Bush brothers look to be playing Pontius Pilate with the life of Terri, but that is them, not the Republican Party. What the Republicans do in the Senate IS the Party.
Hold your fire, and don't leave the tent just yet. Not even though lots of your fellow Republicans here and elsewhere are so eager to show you the door. The fear of loss may bring the Senate to reason, in which case you will still want to be inside the tent.
What you say makes a lot of sense. I coud never vote anything but Republican because of the numbers. It is just that you would think 55 R's would be enough, but it is not cause some pubs are on the fence. If we gave them 60, there would still be some on the fence and they could still wimp out on us!
"It is just that you would think 55 R's would be enough, but it is not cause some pubs are on the fence. If we gave them 60, there would still be some on the fence and they could still wimp out on us!"
That could be.
Or it could be that they're not on the fence and aren't really wimping out. It could be that they mask their mild support for abortion because that is a losing hand, but when it comes right down to it, they actually vote their consciences.
Anyway, we will see soon, because the issue is coming to a head and isn't going to go away. There's no dodge on it. Either the conservatives will take over the bench because the Republicans cleared the way for them, or they won't get on the bench because the Republicans voted to keep the status quo.
Oh, I see. You are another one of those conspiracy theorists who capitalize the word democrats but not Republicans. I think democrat underground is more your style.
Don't you think it's the trilateral commission that's controlling the world?
Correct me if I am wrong, but don't the republicans just need 50 votes and then VP Cheney can break the tie..? So can't we afford 5 defections? It makes me thin that there are more than 5 "republican" senators who do not support this rule change, because if not it would have been done already.
Bingo.
They don't have 50 votes.
I daresay there are other exceptions.
I don't know if VP Cheney has a vote in this matter.
Interesting discussion...... Here's what the Constitution says, Art. 1, Sec. 3, para 4:
The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
The following is the Riddick Senate Procedure.... Go down to page 1219 to the section: Change in, Power to make and it gives a detailed discussion of the changing rules in the Senate.
http://www.gpo.gov/congress/senate/riddick/1217-1228.pdf
If Republicans were on NASDAQ, I would "short em" and take early retirement.
name one.
Amen.
And the Republicans in the legislative and executive branches just made the same mistake again. Allowing the courts to defy their action on behalf of Terri Schiavo turned this into a big victory for liberals and the imperial judiciary.
Finish what you start, GOP.
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