Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Exotic black holes spawn new universal law
New Scientist ^ | 3/23/05 | Jenny Hogan

Posted on 03/23/2005 4:43:32 PM PST by LibWhacker

Black holes may define the perfect fluid, suggests a study of black holes that only exist in a theoretical 10-dimensional space. The finding may have spawned a new universal law in physics, which puts constraints on the way fluids behave in the real world.

Dam Thanh Son from the University of Washington, US, and his colleagues used string theory to model a 10-dimensional black hole as a liquid. String theory tries to explain fundamental properties of the universe by predicting that seven more spatial dimensions exist on top of the known three. While the concept is currently unproven as a cosmological model, the tools of string theory can sometimes provide answers to real quantum problems.

That means that while the "black holes" modelled by Son are not astrophysical black holes, but mathematical objects that exist in string theory, their findings may have relevance to the real world.

The fluid has two properties that relate to the black hole's surface area: viscosity, which describes how thick the liquid is, and entropy density, which is a measure of the internal disorder. Son's team found that the ratio of these two properties is a constant which can be expressed as a mixture of fundamental constants from the quantum world. Super-cooled atoms

They suggest this constant acts as a universal lower limit for the ratio of the viscosity to entropy in real fluids. This backs an argument based on Heisenberg's famed uncertainty principle suggesting that such a limit should exist.

"That is what we hypothesise. We couldn't prove that it's the case, but we couldn't find anything that is less viscous," says Son. For example, the value of this ratio for water is 400 times greater than for black hole fluid. Even liquid helium is nine times more viscous.

Fluids that could approach the limit include super-cooled clouds of atoms, or the plasmas created in particle colliders, suggests Son.

Physicists have already drawn comparisons between the fireball produced at the Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC) at Brookhaven National Laboratory in Upton, New York, US, and string-theory black holes. "I've started taking it seriously," says Peter Steinberg from Brookhaven National Laboratory, who works with one of the teams collecting data at the RHIC.

Although RHIC have not yet measured the viscosity of their fireball, this would allow an experimental test of Son's prediction. "The final word will come from the experimentalists," Son says.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: black; blackholes; cosmology; entropy; fluid; holes; law; physics; universal; viscosity
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-37 last
To: Starve The Beast

Not to worry - there will be some other wild new theory of the cosmos next month.


21 posted on 03/23/2005 6:01:34 PM PST by BenLurkin (O beautiful for patriot dream - that sees beyond the years)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
A perfect gas obeys the pv = RT state equation.

'Ya got me, RW. None of the other laws of physics are known to hold inside a black hole, so I'm not sure this one would hold, either. How do you define pressure when the mass of a billion stars has been squeezed down to a mathematical point and the volume is zero? Very, very little of this stuff makes any sense to me. But I love it nonetheless! :-)

22 posted on 03/23/2005 6:09:23 PM PST by LibWhacker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: LibWhacker

You still have p, v, R, and T, but in such abstruse mathematical forms that they don't lend themselves well to mental images. They lost me yesterday with that Lorentz symmetry violation. Diffeomorphism? Serious.


23 posted on 03/23/2005 6:14:18 PM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: LibWhacker
The finding may have spawned a new universal law in physics, which puts constraints on the way fluids behave in the real world.

Congressional Democrats, out of force of habit, are threatening to filibuster the new findings to keep them from becoming law.

24 posted on 03/23/2005 6:24:01 PM PST by GreenHornet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: tet68
"The final word will come from the experimentalists,"

a.k.a. "The proof is in the pudding."

Pudding!


25 posted on 03/23/2005 6:27:14 PM PST by The Duke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: RightWhale
They lose me almost every time their lips start flappin', lol. But I still love to think about what they're saying. Yeah, never heard of a diffeomorphism in all my years in math. Doesn't surprise me, tho. A person can only know a teeny, tiny little part of math nowadays.
26 posted on 03/23/2005 6:28:36 PM PST by LibWhacker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: LibWhacker
Exotic black holes spawn new universal law

I'm really restraining myself here!

27 posted on 03/23/2005 6:30:20 PM PST by Focault's Pendulum (Michael Schiavo's favorite Shakespearean quote..."Put out the light....then put out the light.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SIDENET

So, what are the other theorectical dimensions?

And, well, for that matter, what are the three known dimensions?

(Length, height and width/depth?)


28 posted on 03/23/2005 6:34:29 PM PST by Ro_Thunder (Lt.Col. Myles Miyamasu -"These guys really make us work to kill them, but in the end, they're dead.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Ro_Thunder
"And, well, for that matter, what are the three known dimensions? (Length, height and width/depth?)"
The three known dimensions are weight, girth (waist) and inseam.
29 posted on 03/23/2005 6:44:20 PM PST by GSlob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: GSlob

How about "sight, sound, and mind"? Never mind, that was the Twilight Zone.


30 posted on 03/23/2005 6:51:18 PM PST by SIDENET (on station)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: GSlob

The 3 dimensions, scientists hypothesize, run through a 4th dimension, time. Now as to the 5th through 10th dimensions necessary in this fluid black hole theory are a bit beyond my understanding ...though think of space being bent/warped on a micro micro microscopic level that is invisible beyond our technologies but has a dramatic affect on the structure/stability of space-time.


31 posted on 03/23/2005 7:30:09 PM PST by scienceisneat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: scienceisneat

The fourth dimension is the price, with a dollar as unit of measurement.


32 posted on 03/23/2005 7:31:51 PM PST by GSlob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: scienceisneat

As far as the new universal law they are talking about, seems to me all the scientists here are really saying is that black holes have less viscosity (ability to move freely through a liquid) than any other object in the universe, if thought about as a liquid. For example,
Water is 60 x's more viscous than a black hole.

They are saying black holes represent the lowest viscosity fluid in the universe and therefore is a constant and tells you the lowest possible limit of viscosity.


33 posted on 03/23/2005 7:38:43 PM PST by scienceisneat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Ro_Thunder; RadioAstronomer
what are the three known dimensions?

Any three mutually orthogonal directions you'd like to choose.

34 posted on 03/23/2005 7:41:34 PM PST by longshadow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: LibWhacker
"...the mass of a billion stars has been squeezed down to a mathematical point and the volume is zero..."

A common misconception. The fact is, we don't know what goes on inside the event horizon. The average mass density of a galactic-mass black hole need not be any greater than that of sea-level air.
35 posted on 03/23/2005 9:24:09 PM PST by RightOnTheLeftCoast (You're it)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: surfer
"everyday is humbling experience when you truly realize how little we know and how insignificant we really are..."

That is how I feel when I watch an eclipse or a comet or a falling star.

Mark Twain

"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear."

    Samuel Clemens, more commonly known as Mark Twain was born in Florida, Missouri on Nov. 30, 1835. He held many different jobs during his lifetime. Among them, a reporter, a publisher, and a riverboat pilot. In 1862 Sam began writing for many magazines and newspapers under the pen name of Mark Twain, a name taken from a riverboat term. Twain was a great writer, his three best books were Roughing It, The adventures of Tom Sawyer, and The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn.  His books sold many copies. One of his books, A Tramp Abroad  sold 25,000 copies. The year he was born, Halley's Comet passed over. Twain vowed that he would not die until he saw the famous comet. Then, just before he died Halley's Comet passed over. He died the next day; April 21st, 1910, at 6:30 p.m. Mark Twain stopped breathing. (He often said "I came into this world with the comet and I will go out with the comet, and true to his word, the day after Halley's Comet passed over again in 1910, he died)

    Mark Twain was great even during his lifetime. He had many jobs that gave him a good education and varied experiences with many kinds of people. Something else that helped him achieve greatness in the world was that he was determined. He set goals to write his books and set many goals to write magazine articles, newspaper articles and other types of articles. A third thing that helped him achieve greatness was that he had perseverance. That quality helped him write books because he kept on trying to think of varied ways to write his stories and articles. Finally, Mark Twain learned from his experiences. He learned early on that his readers liked different writing styles. He didn't disappoint them when he wrote his humor, satire, and adventure. If his books got bad ratings, he would know not to try something different. Some of his characteristics were integrity, sense-of-humor, and initiative. Mark Twain's personality was funny, out-going, and cooperative. His humorous and insightful remarks were often quoted around the world, both then and now. Mark Twain will be remembered and quoted for a long time.


36 posted on 03/24/2005 5:15:31 AM PST by buffyt (If we stop fighting terrorism, the world will die.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: buffyt

Once I achieved that perspective I felt a new level of freedom...you have two choices on your path...

Be good...
or
Be bad...

It is much easier to be good...IMHO.


37 posted on 03/24/2005 7:47:46 AM PST by surfer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-37 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson