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Six Members Of Sub Crew Punished For Pacific Crash
The (New London CT) Day ^ | 3/23/2005 | ROBERT A. HAMILTON

Posted on 03/23/2005 2:13:23 PM PST by IonImplantGuru

Six submariners assigned to the submarine USS San Francisco have been punished for dereliction of duty or putting a vessel in danger in connection with a Jan. 8 incident in which the submarine slammed into a seamount in the Pacific, killing one sailor and injuring 98 others.

The San Francisco was making a trip to Australia when it came to periscope depth to fix its position accurately a little more than 400 miles southwest of Guam. Minutes after diving, and while traveling at a high rate of speed, the submarine hit a seamount in an area where official Navy charts list 6,000 feet of water.

The executive officer, a lieutenant commander, and the navigator, a lieutenant, received permanent punitive letters of censure, Navy sources said Tuesday.

The assistant navigator, a senior chief electronics technician, received a similar letter and was stripped of his Navy enlisted classification, which ousts him from the submarine force.

Three other enlisted men, all members of the San Francisco navigation team, were demoted one rank, one of them from electronics technician 1st class to electronics technician 2nd class, and two others from 2nd class to 3rd class.

(Excerpt) Read more at theday.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: grounding; navy; ssn711; submarine; usssanfrancisco
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I've conversed (via BBS) with one of the junior enlisted who lost a chevron in his mast; this in addition to being medically disqualified from sub duty due to injuries sustained in the grounding.

A literal case of 'adding insult to injury'!

1 posted on 03/23/2005 2:13:24 PM PST by IonImplantGuru
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To: judicial meanz; submarinerswife; PogySailor; chasio649; gobucks; Bottom_Gun; Dog Gone; HipShot; ...
Steely-eyed Killers of the Deep (((Ping!)))

Reposted Day article, since Navy Times can't be used on FR.

2 posted on 03/23/2005 2:17:03 PM PST by IonImplantGuru (Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt. (May they perish who have expressed our bright ideas before us)
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To: IonImplantGuru
A literal case of 'adding insult to injury'!


In the Navy, even the injured do not and should not escape accountability.
3 posted on 03/23/2005 2:17:23 PM PST by rottndog (Nuc Boats Forever!!)
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To: IonImplantGuru
My first thought was that the Navy was making scapegoats out of these guys. Then I read this part:

the navigation crew had taken a sounding that showed the water to be thousands of feet shallower than on the charts. Though still showing ample water under the keel for safe operation, the discrepancy should have prompted more caution, the sources said.

If that is in fact true (and it appears that it is), then the Navy is correct in assesing partial blame to several individuals.

4 posted on 03/23/2005 2:34:31 PM PST by Michael.SF. (Does anyone remember Billy Dale? Did the Democrats ever care?)
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To: IonImplantGuru
Cmdr. Kevin Mooney, the captain of the San Francisco, was permanently relieved as skipper early last month after an administrative proceeding known as an admiral's mast. Mooney was found guilty of failing to follow “several critical navigational and voyage planning” standards, a Navy spokesman said without elaboration. Sources said Mooney is being reassigned to the Trident Training Facility in Bangor, Wash. He is expected to retire from the Navy from that job, the sources said.

Retire with full pay and benefits while 3 enlisted each lost 1 rank. The monetary value is enormous. Not to mention the other officers only get a "letter of censure".... I hate the NJP process. It's very harsh on enlisted while officers basically get off the hook.

5 posted on 03/23/2005 2:36:24 PM PST by bkwells
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To: rottndog
Cut me some slack, Dog! I've just always wanted a situation where I could use that old saw.

Personally I think they're punishing scapegoats, when it's the 'system' that's broken. But I will fess up some 'Monday morning quarterbacking' since I wasn't there to see the evidence. Perhaps we'll all be illuminated when and if the official investigation report is released.

6 posted on 03/23/2005 2:37:39 PM PST by IonImplantGuru (Pereant qui ante nos nostra dixerunt. (May they perish who have expressed our bright ideas before us)
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To: bkwells

"Retire with full pay and benefits while 3 enlisted each lost 1 rank. The monetary value is enormous. Not to mention the other officers only get a "letter of censure".... I hate the NJP process. It's very harsh on enlisted while officers basically get off the hook."

The Captain will AUTOMATICALLY be administratively reviewed for retirement at a lower grade if he retires within 3 years of receiving a 'Captain's Mast'.

As far as the permanent letters of censure for the officers, yu can rest assured that their careers are DONE. No promotions - no retirement.

By law you CANNOT 'bust' an officer down in rank either administratively or in a court-martial sentence. (except in the case listed above with retirement-eligible officers).


Sign me a

'Former JAG'


7 posted on 03/23/2005 2:42:20 PM PST by Al Simmons (4-time 'W' voter, 1994-2004.)
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To: bkwells
Not to mention the other officers only get a "letter of censure"


That letter of censure will end their careers. Up or out--they will be passed over for promotion. The enlisted guys will have a chance to rehabilitate their careers.
8 posted on 03/23/2005 2:44:15 PM PST by rottndog (WOOF!!!!!)
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To: bkwells

"Retire with full pay and benefits while 3 enlisted each lost 1 rank. The monetary value is enormous. Not to mention the other officers only get a "letter of censure".... I hate the NJP process. It's very harsh on enlisted while officers basically get off the hook."

...not to mention the Sr Chief lost his dolphins...that's money out of his pocket with the loss of SS pay and sea pay...and a shot at MCPO looks bleak as well. Isn't it "Navy Tradition" for accountability to increase with rank? Looks to me as though it's just a quick/easy ticket to retirement...with FULL pay and FULL benefits! What a crock!


9 posted on 03/23/2005 2:47:29 PM PST by Shooter1430 ("Courage is not the absence of fear, but rather the judgment that something else is more important t)
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To: IonImplantGuru
No Slack EVER!!!!!

This is typical for the Sub force--the brass is always looking for any and every opportunity to make examples of F##kups. Everyone was eager to get to Australia. No matter which way you cut it, this was preventable, and everyone who could have prevented it shares at least some culpability.
10 posted on 03/23/2005 2:50:05 PM PST by rottndog (WOOF!!!!!)
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To: Al Simmons

Cool a JAG. What type of fighter jet do you fly? How did you like Hell Week in Buds? Does LtCol Catherine Bell have an unmarried sister?


11 posted on 03/23/2005 2:51:35 PM PST by SaltyJoe (Do you "life" enough to earn your inalienable rights? Does your judge think that you're alive?)
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To: SaltyJoe

LMAO.


12 posted on 03/23/2005 3:01:50 PM PST by EricT. (Join the Soylent Green Party...We recycle dead environmentalists.)
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To: Al Simmons; Shooter1430
As far as the permanent letters of censure for the officers, yu can rest assured that their careers are DONE. No promotions - no retirement.

Oh whoop de do... No money out of pocket, no loss of rank, no restriction, no nothing. They still have full pay and benefits while they finish out what's left of their career waiting to be twice passed over for promotion (2xos) and then collect severance pay when they get forced out.

I've never heard of an officer actually being forced to retire at a lower rank. Even so, retirement pay for an O6, O5, or O4 is much better than any enlisted would hope to see.

13 posted on 03/23/2005 3:06:50 PM PST by bkwells
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To: SaltyJoe

LMAO!


14 posted on 03/23/2005 3:06:57 PM PST by 506trooper (No such thing as too much guns, ammo or fuel on board...unless you're on fire)
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To: IonImplantGuru
This is significant new damage info...
"Navy sources have said, however, that the damage to the ship, particularly the alignment of some of the propulsion equipment, is worse than initially believed and that the submarine may have to be scrapped...In addition, a bulkhead at the front end of the ship was buckled."
--Boot Hill
15 posted on 03/23/2005 3:09:04 PM PST by Boot Hill ("...and Josuha went unto him and said: art thou for us, or for our adversaries?")
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To: IonImplantGuru
As to the navigation and to any knowledge regarding an uncharted seamount, the Navy reveals that...
"The punishments, and the lines of questioning, seem to support claims by Navy sources last month that the submarine had not updated its charts with notices to mariners, some dating back to the 1960s and some made as recently as last year, that would indicate a seamount in an area where the water was supposed to be several thousand feet deep."   (emphasis added)
--Boot Hill
16 posted on 03/23/2005 3:16:33 PM PST by Boot Hill ("...and Josuha went unto him and said: art thou for us, or for our adversaries?")
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To: Michael.SF.
had taken a sounding that showed the water to be thousands of feet shallower than on the charts.

Up until this point I was wondering how people could be discipined for following a chart.

17 posted on 03/23/2005 3:16:47 PM PST by Tom Bombadil
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To: SaltyJoe

As an ex-squid I was hired by, and answered directly to THE JAG (admiral) after he retired. Needless to say I would needle him like that every chance I got. After that much time in and doing the job that he did, he had quite a sense of humor about it. He was great to work for and a straight shooter. I would be interested to hear his take on this episode.


18 posted on 03/23/2005 3:18:52 PM PST by ExpatGator (Progressivism: A polyp on the colon politic.)
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To: Al Simmons
Sign me a

'Former JAG'

Wow, I've seen your show. You got to work with some nice babes.

19 posted on 03/23/2005 3:20:23 PM PST by AFreeBird (your mileage may vary)
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To: Tom Bombadil
had taken a sounding that showed the water to be thousands of feet shallower than on the charts.

Are you going to belive a chart, or your own eyes?

I can understand why the crew was punished. But, if justice is to be served, and the future problems avoided; there should be some heads rolling from whatever department supplied the faulty chartware.
20 posted on 03/23/2005 3:23:40 PM PST by ARCADIA (Abuse of power comes as no surprise)
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