Posted on 03/22/2005 10:53:46 AM PST by Dan from Michigan
Minnesota School Massacre Latest Example of the Human Toll of America's Love Affair with Guns
Shooter's Willingness to Commit Suicide Demonstrates Futility of Deterrence, Restricting Access to Firearms is the Only Way to Prevent Future Tragedies
Washington, D.C.—Yesterday's mass shooting at a Minnesota high school in which a lone shooter killed nine and wounded more than a dozen before taking his own life was the worst school shooting since the 1999 massacre at Columbine High School, where two students killed 13 and wounded another 23 before taking their own lives.
In the wake of this most recent shooting, Kristen Rand, legislative director for the Violence Policy Center (VPC) states, "America must face the fact that we have a love affair with guns that exacts a tremendous and unacceptable cost in human lives lost. Mass shootings like that at Red Lake High School are the future for America's children until policymakers decide it's time to enact real gun control. Other countries have found the solution to mass shootings, and it consists of severe restrictions on the availability of specific classes of firearms, such as handguns and assault weapons."
Noting that, as was the case at Columbine, the Minnesota high school shooter was prepared to die in order to perpetrate the shooting, Rand adds, "There is simply no way the criminal justice system or a series of security measures—such as the guard and metal detectors present at Red Lake High School—can prevent a shooter determined to kill and willing to die."
The shooting at Red Lake High School is the latest mass murder-suicide to occur in the United States and follows, by less than two weeks, a murder-suicide at a Wisconsin hotel that resulted in eight dead. These shootings, like the vast majority of such incidents, were perpetrated with a gun. A study conducted by the VPC in 2002 found that guns were used in 95 percent of all murder-suicides and estimated that at least 1,300 lives are lost each year to murder-suicide. (For a copy of the study, American Roulette: The Untold Story of Murder-Suicide in the United States, as well as gun violence information for Minnesota, please see www.vpc.org).
The school in question had metal detectors and security guards. For the life of me, I can't imagine what additional measures might come out of some kind of "partnering effort" with a mental health organization that would be more effective than that.
I'm willing to go out on a limb here and make the following statement . . . I can almost guarantee you that the one measure that could certainly have gone a long way toward preventing the Red Lake massacre -- using armed guards (and more of them) instead of a single unarmed guard -- would never show up on a mental health organization's list of 100 measures to prevent school violence.
The NRA and the GOA are defending against the unconstitutional infringements on the 2nd amendment. Your suggestion that they lobby congress to open more mental hospitals is not very logical. If Either the NRA or the GOA adopted your position they would be conceding that the fundamental arguments for gun control are correct. The arguments for gun control are not correct. The VPC's, and other gun control groups, goal is to disarm America and their motive is not to make America a safer place. Any concessions to these people only shifts the the goal line making it easier for the next assault. We know what the ultimate goal is of all these gun control groups so why would anyone suggest helping them? (rhetorical question not intended to be insulting)
Do you honestly think that the repeal of the 2nd amendment is an achievable goal?(real honest to goodness question)
If the 2nd amendment was repealed what do you think would happen in this country?
Then what conditions were present in the 1950's that prevented school and work place shootings?
I don't mind being called a "gun nut", because I am one.
My original question was designed to determine where you were coming from.
No. Your original question was to infer that I was a communist by implying that I did not believing in the Constitution.
The NRA and the GOA are defending against the unconstitutional infringements on the 2nd amendment.
You mean that the 2nd. Amendment is totally un-infringed in all states across the US? I don't think so.
If Either the NRA or the GOA adopted your position they would be conceding that the fundamental arguments for gun control are correct.
By the virtue of what logic? It is illegal, federally, for a minor to be in possession of a firearm at school. The "Instant Background Check" when you purchase a firearm is designed to detect the mentally unstable that are in the data bank. Is this a concession to the fundamental arguments for gun control? I don't think so. The NRA helped draft these laws with Congress.
We know what the ultimate goal is of all these gun control groups so why would anyone suggest helping them?
I am not suggesting helping them, I am suggesting out-flanking them. You don't posses a tactical mind, do you?
Do you honestly think that the repeal of the 2nd amendment is an achievable goal?(real honest to goodness question)
My honest answer, Yes. Why? Because the the Second Amendment movement can't see beyond the rear sight.
If the 2nd amendment was repealed what do you think would happen in this country?
Not much. You'd all turn in your guns like good little soldiers. I think the battle cry of; "From My Cold Dead Hands!" is nothing more than a bluff.
Don't forget 45 cal. french fries.
I agree. When I was in the Army I refused to mount guard, other than parade, without arms and ammunition. The presence of an unarmed guard is the admission that the perceived threat is not taken seriously and lawyers are feared more than a gunman. Unarmed is also cheaper. The problem in this case is, would you like to be the armed guard that shot the kid dead at the entrance of the school? You may be hailed for a while as a hero, but I can guarantee you that, eventually, some family member will sue you for wrongful death of the kid.
1. People were more responsible citizens back then.
2. Society was more homogenized back then.
3. Survival was more difficult back then, because people didn't have a giant, intrusive nanny-state to take care of every real or perceived need.
Item #3 is particularly important, for I believe it is an underlying factor in many of the social pathologies we see on a regular basis in this country. We are so affluent as a nation that we are literally bored to tears.
You should take a good hard look at what has happened in Canada under the country's mandatory gun registration laws. People in rural areas all across the country have pretty much ignored it, and the province of Alberta has openly stated that it will not enforce the law. They basically called Ottawa's bluff on that one, for the RCMP is such a small law enforcement body that Canada is basically ungovernable from a Federal standpoint.
There are a couple of members of the Alberta parliament who carry their guns to work in the provincial legislature every day, in open defiance of this useless law.
Minnesota School Massacre Latest Example of the Human Toll of America's Love Affair with Guns
Oh yeah, partnering with mental health orgs. That'll do the trick! Good one bucko!
Ha, ha. Sure, a few meetings ought to clear these massacres-by-teenagers up. Hey, why don't you call up the WORLD Health Org., I'm sure they'll have even more great tips on how to prevent massacres.
And by the way, don't call FReepers "gun nuts".
"No. Your original question was to infer that I was a communist by implying that I did not believing in the Constitution."
I'm afraid you will have to bow to my obvious expertise concerning my own reasons for doing anything.
"You mean that the 2nd. Amendment is totally un-infringed in all states across the US? I don't think so."
No that isn't what I said.
"By the virtue of what logic? It is illegal, federally, for a minor to be in possession of a firearm at school. The "Instant Background Check" when you purchase a firearm is designed to detect the mentally unstable that are in the data bank. Is this a concession to the fundamental arguments for gun control? I don't think so. The NRA helped draft these laws with Congress."
You are making the same point that I was. By moving to a mental health issue or another gun law issue you are conceding ground. No gun law will prevent a criminal from obtaining a weapon period.
"I am not suggesting helping them, I am suggesting out-flanking them. You don't posses a tactical mind, do you?"
You aren't talking about a flanking position you are talking about get led into an ambush. We do not have to engage...we have the high ground. Every time they attack our position they look like fools and get beaten back. If we engage them in silly arguments that are completely removed from the point, like mental hospitals, we are giving weight to their claims simply by being involved with it. I think that is the tactically sound position.
"My honest answer, Yes. Why? Because the the Second Amendment movement can't see beyond the rear sight.
I do not understand this comment.
"Not much. You'd all turn in your guns like good little soldiers. I think the battle cry of; "From My Cold Dead Hands!" is nothing more than a bluff."
I guess I have more faith in the American people. I see a lot of shift in the 2nd amendment movements in that they are paying attention to more constitutional issues then just the 2nd now. I also see some other pro-freedom movements becoming more interested in the 2nd. There are some reasons to be optimistic.
OK. You are all right and I am all wrong.
you cannot compare a gun with a car.
the sense of a car is to drive around and being mobile.
the "love affair with cars" causing that much deaths are ACCIDENTS.
and that school massacre was not an accident.
the only sence of a gun is to shoot and kill. maybe in selfdefense. maybe to hunt.
if the young guy had not have access to guns because of stricter gun laws....he would not have been able to kill that much people.
this is the opinion of an european scholar making a report about guns in america.
Hey, if you can marry someone of the same sex, why can't I have a love affair with my gun.
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