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IRS probes politics at church
Miami Herald ^ | ANDREA ROBINSON

Posted on 03/22/2005 8:23:42 AM PST by Brian Mosely

The IRS has notified a Liberty City church that it is under investigation for possibly engaging in political activity -- putting its tax-exempt status into question.

The probe is related to an appearance last October by Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry and several black leaders, including U.S. Rep. Kendrick Meek of Miami, the Rev. Al Sharpton and the Rev. Jesse Jackson.

The reason for the investigation, an IRS official wrote in a 10-page letter obtained by The Herald, is that ``a reasonable belief exists that Friendship Missionary Baptist Church has engaged in political activities that could jeopardize its tax-exempt status as a church.''

(Excerpt) Read more at miami.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: blackchurch; churchandstate; democrats; electioneering; firstamendment; irs; kerry; politicking; taxes
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To: Always Right

What about individuals that are income tax exempt because they earn less than the minimum taxable income? Can they not talk politics, either?

The more one considers a taxation/political sppech connection, the more ludicrous it becomes. Well, for some folks, anyway.

Churches better stop letting government use their facilities as voting precincts, too.


61 posted on 03/22/2005 9:42:45 AM PST by polymuser
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To: Always Right
The Government can regulate the Church, but the Church can't say a darn thing about it?

Why can't the church say anything about it?

62 posted on 03/22/2005 9:44:19 AM PST by gdani
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea

You are mis-applying the confusing IRS code. It says that churches automatically qualify as "tax exempt" similar to a non-profit 501(c)(3). Unless the church specifically APPLIES as a 501(c)(3) is is only a "non profit religious organization" that qualifies as tax exempt. People are misreading the code, which the IRS isn't going to complain about.


63 posted on 03/22/2005 9:44:40 AM PST by TommyDale
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To: gdani

I am glad that someone else here understands the IRS rules. Thanks for your posts!


64 posted on 03/22/2005 9:47:00 AM PST by TommyDale
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To: polymuser
What about individuals that are income tax exempt because they earn less than the minimum taxable income? Can they not talk politics, either?

As has pointed out numerous times on this thread, everyone - whether they are 501(c)(3) or not - can talk politics.

I believe you mean can they electioneer? Of course they can. They are not 501(c)(3) orgs.

The more one considers a taxation/political sppech connection, the more ludicrous it becomes. Well, for some folks, anyway

The IRS regs are narrowly tailored for 501(c)(3) orgs. It's not broad enough to encompass *every* situation where someone or something is tax exempt.

65 posted on 03/22/2005 9:47:46 AM PST by gdani
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To: Always Right
The Government can regulate the Church, but the Church can't say a darn thing about it? This is so ass-backwards, if you can't see it, I am not even going to argue.

There is no arguement. The church, like any other business, should pay taxes. But for religeous reasons, the government set up provisions to allow for tax exempt status conditioned upon a few rules (one of which is that the church can't play politics). When the church agreed to take the tax exempt status, they agreed to abide by the conditions precedent. How hard is it to understand? They can't have their cake and eat it too.

66 posted on 03/22/2005 9:48:40 AM PST by Go Gordon
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To: gdani

Coleman and the Porn star might have the least of the problems from that group.


67 posted on 03/22/2005 9:48:49 AM PST by Grampa Dave (The MSM has been a WMD, Weapon of Mass Disinformation for the Rats for at least 4 decades.)
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To: Graybeard58
You are correct. If they exempt me from paying taxes I will shut my political mouth from now on.

I would certainly be tempted, believe me,

68 posted on 03/22/2005 9:50:46 AM PST by Modernman ("They're not people, they're hippies!"- Cartman)
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To: polymuser

Wait a minute...

Churches = tax exempt
527 orgs = tax exempt
but
Churches who make political statements like a 527 = non-exempt?

I still think churches should be taxed but I don't like how the above equation works out.


69 posted on 03/22/2005 9:51:40 AM PST by Terpesman
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To: LauraleeBraswell
But this law banning churches from politics violates the basic freedom of speech

There is no law banning them from being political. BUT, if you want to be a tax-free church, you need to stay out of politics.

That's more than fair enough for me.

70 posted on 03/22/2005 9:52:03 AM PST by Centurion2000 (Nations do not survive by setting examples for others. Nations survive by making examples of others)
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To: petitfour
In other words, you must pay to have free speech. Not very free.

Not really. These churches are receiving a government benefit that involves some rules that need to be followed. If they find these rules to be too onerous, they can refuse the benefit.

71 posted on 03/22/2005 9:55:08 AM PST by Modernman ("They're not people, they're hippies!"- Cartman)
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To: Go Gordon
There is no arguement. The church, like any other business, should pay taxes.

No they should not. There is no Constitutional Amendment which prohibits the government from regulating the establishment of Businesses. It seems Churches are tricked into filing into a status that allows the IRS to regulate them. Churches are inheriently exempt from federal taxes under our Constitution and should not need a special filing status.

72 posted on 03/22/2005 9:55:52 AM PST by Always Right
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To: ancient_geezer; Badray; smokeyb

Ping.


73 posted on 03/22/2005 9:57:13 AM PST by Conservative Goddess (Veritas vos Liberabit, in Vino, Veritas....QED, Vino vos Liberabit)
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To: gdani

OK.

What's the basis for non-taxation in return for political silence, particularly about candidates, and the threat of taxation should an organization endorse a candidate?

And, how can that square with tax-exemption for purely political organizations (527's)?

A link on 501(c)(3) lobbying: http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=120703,00.html


74 posted on 03/22/2005 9:59:11 AM PST by polymuser
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To: gdani
I am planning to start a church in the near future and have investigated the options to the 501(c)3 status, but honestly, everywhere I go for advice I seem to find weirdos who seem to be more interested in a hippie style of fellowship than actually preaching a risen Christ.
75 posted on 03/22/2005 10:02:24 AM PST by Preachin' (Democrats know that they can never run on their real agenda.)
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To: Brian Mosely

Liberty City is, without a doubt, the WORST ghetto neighborhood in the United States. NW 79th Street makes Springfield Avenue in Newark look like Rodeo Drive.


76 posted on 03/22/2005 10:04:12 AM PST by Clemenza (Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms: The Other Holy Trinity)
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To: TommyDale

Are we really saying anything different? You are correct in saying that a church automatically qualifies as tax exempt, and this predates the establishment of the 501-C-3 part of the tax code. Churches do not have to be 501-C-3's, but many have thought they did have to do that. And the IRS cannot take away the church tax exempt status, though they threaten and scare us into thinking so.


77 posted on 03/22/2005 10:04:51 AM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea
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To: TommyDale

Are we really saying anything different? You are correct in saying that a church automatically qualifies as tax exempt, and this predates the establishment of the 501-C-3 part of the tax code. Churches do not have to be 501-C-3's, but many have thought they did have to do that. And the IRS cannot take away the church tax exempt status, though they threaten and scare us into thinking so.


78 posted on 03/22/2005 10:04:56 AM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea
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To: Go Gordon
"Churches DO have first amendment rights, but not with tax exempt status when it comes to politics."

I beg to differ with you. Only 501(c)(3) churches are limited.

79 posted on 03/22/2005 10:05:18 AM PST by TommyDale
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To: Always Right
There is no Constitutional Amendment which prohibits the government from regulating the establishment of Businesses. It seems Churches are tricked into filing into a status that allows the IRS to regulate them. Churches are inheriently exempt from federal taxes under our Constitution and should not need a special filing status.

Dude, all of the laws established by Congress are not specifically enumerated in the Constitution. That does not mean the laws are unconstitutional. You won't find a 65 MPH speed limit listed in the Constitution. That does not mean that a highway with a posted 65 MPH limit is unenforceable.

Under the commerce provisions of the Constitution, Congress has regulatory powers. Along the way, they established businesses would pay taxes. Churches are no different, but in order to give churches and worshippers a break, the conditional non-profit status was implemented. So, either churches play by the rules, or give up their non-profit status. It really is as simple as that.

80 posted on 03/22/2005 10:05:38 AM PST by Go Gordon
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