[the invisib1e hand]

it's the malicious SUV's at it again. what have we created?!

[armymarinemom]

The Army is trying to determine whether the dramatic increase in the number of Humvees in use in Iraq - or an increase in the amount of miles they are being driven - might explain the higher number of accidents. It also is questioning whether the handling and center of gravity in Humvees may have been altered by armor plating bolted on in Iraq or shields added around gun turrets.

That would be my guess. I've never driven an armored Humvee but I have driven an ambulance and it handles much differently than a van or truck.

[sierrahome]

"14 soldiers were killed in accidents involving Humvees or trucks"

We need to end our occupation of motor vehicles and pull our troops out of Humvees and trucks!

[stuartcr]

Probably has a lot to do with driving when you are really scared...

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

It also is questioning whether the handling and center of gravity in Humvees may have been altered by armor plating bolted on in Iraq or shields added around gun turrets.

And could it be that, with the added weight alone (apart from any CG effects), the humvee isn't quite as responsive to the controls as it was without it?

Nah! Couldn't be that! That would mean that putting armor on the humvees wasn't a free lunch, even from a casualty-count-in-humvees perspective. And we all know that that isn't true!

</sarcasm>

[mhking]

Just damn.

If you want on the list, FReepmail me. This IS a high-volume PING list...

[bmwcyle]

19 year old men behind the wheel of a V8. What is to wonder?

[TChris]

It also is questioning whether the handling and center of gravity in Humvees may have been altered by armor plating bolted on in Iraq or shields added around gun turrets.

Duh!

I seem to remember a report posted here some months ago where someone in the Army pointed out that the extra armor pushes the HumVee far outside of its designed parameters. Engineers don't just randomly make up these design limitations! The HumVee wasn't designed to be an APC!

[roaddog727]

"It also is questioning whether the handling and center of gravity in Humvees may have been altered by armor plating bolted on in Iraq or shields added around gun turrets."

This I can say from experience in driveing these things is the most likely cause of the rollovers.

[elfman2]

My guess is that as the war dies down, battle hardened 19 year olds have a lot more time to play with these “indestructible” toys.

[gridlock]

It also is questioning whether the handling and center of gravity in Humvees may have been altered by armor plating bolted on in Iraq or shields added around gun turrets.

Duh! Ya think?

You cannot add thousands of pounds of armor plate to the upper surfaces of any vehicle without effecting the handling characteristics. The Humvee is s fine vehicle, as designed, but it is not a Stryker. Dressing them up like Strykers is going to increase the rate of rollovers.

Hopefully the lives saved by the armor will more than make up for the accidental deaths. The Army needs to train the drivers that these up-armored Humvees are not the same animal they trained on back in the States.

[taxed2death]

No brainer. Take a vehicle with relitively low CG, bolt on 4500 pounds of armour plate above its CG and you get an underpowered overweight POS that rolls over if you pass gas next to it.


Next question?

[Arrowhead1952]

The regular M998 HMMWV weighs in at 5,600 lbs without ammo, armament, etc.

The up-armored HMMWV weighs just over 10,000 lbs without ammo, armament, etc.

Both have four tires, either bias or radial.

Nah, that wouldn't have a thing to do with the additional accidnets. </sarcasm>

[CSM]

The media attacks against the Pentagon and Rumsfield are directly responsible for these deaths. If it wasn't for their repeated screams for Armor, the soldiers wouldn't be driving vehicles they are not familiar with!

[Wiz]

If surrounding air bags and the panic button on the new civilian hummers would be added onto all hummers in Iraq, maybe it would have contributed to less casualties.

[Old Professer]

A key missing element leaves this issue impossible to analyze; what are the topographies of the accident locations?

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Fix the Aging Humvee

I used to get into lots of discussions about this. Check out the keywords if you're interested.

[GingisK]

rollovers involving armored Humvees

The stupid thing had a high center of gravity to begin with. Then they added armor it wasn't designed to have, adding additional weight it wasn't designed to support as well as raising the CG. The rollovers surprise them? Now I'm surprised.