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Debtor's Prison -- The Poor Person's Best Friend
JesBeard.com ^ | Jes Beard

Posted on 03/11/2005 9:27:36 PM PST by The Loan Arranger

Years ago, this country did away with debtors prisons. The nation in general, and poor people in particular, would be well served to bring them back. The harm to business from unpaid debt, and the reduced productivity and even business failure unpaid debt can bring, is obvious. Businesses or individuals who are not repaid the money they loaned or who are not paid for the goods or services they produced and sold on credit are prevented from accumulating needed and even expected capital for expansion, and they are frequently thrown into serious financial constraints making it hard to pay their own creditors and employees. This not only can theoretically choke the gross national product, many recessions and even the Great Depression have been in fact brought on at least partly by unpaid debt.

But debt relief measures, either in the form of actual debt forgiveness or in the form of relaxed procedures to collect debt (including the abolition of debtors prisons), are generally thought to help the poor. The idea that once again forcing poor people into involuntary servitude to pay for meager food and shelter is certainly a tough sell. But here goes.

A return to debtors prisons would help poor people in at least five ways: 1) increasing workforce participation; 2) increasing personal responsibility; 3) making it easier for the poor to climb the economic ladder through entrepreneurship; 4) reintroduction of the virtues which have proven the only reliable way of the poor to leave poverty; 5) making credit more readily available.

(Excerpt) Read more at jesbeard.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: amodestproposal; credit; debtorsprison; paybacktime
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To: sevry
Nope......you are just uneducated and damned dead wrong! Disagree with me and you are ignoring the facts.
141 posted on 03/14/2005 12:31:31 AM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons

Sevry is looking for a core of "fairness" in a system where none exists. As my mother used to say, "Poor baby, did someone go and tell you that life was fair?"


142 posted on 03/14/2005 12:34:13 AM PST by durasell (Friends are so alarming, My lover's never charming...)
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To: sevry
Please.....you already owe me far more than you can afford,for my educating you with historical facts ( which you chose to ignore! )and now you want even more? Get off line,go read up on this topic and then get back to me. I'll even give you a book list.

You can't debate here from abject weakness and no knowledge of a topic and expect that someone is just going to continue to bloody spoon-feed you.Debating you,is akin to debating a precocious 5 year old. Sorry,but that is neither pleasurable,not interesting.

But I'll be a bit kind and give you a quickly answer of sorts.........

This isn't the same nation it was in 1780,nor even 1880.People used to starve to death.People died at an early age. there were fewer people.There were roaming gangs of bums,numbering in the tens of thousands,who traipsed across this nation and leaving their families to starve at home,in the depressions of the 1870s and 1873-98.

Many ethnic groups formed social/philanthropic societies,which actually had programs ( unemployment insurance,pensions for widows and orphans,and burial costs ) that were replaced by governmental programs. None of that exists now.

You can't just eliminate something like Social Security,tomorrow,for example.THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

143 posted on 03/14/2005 12:50:40 AM PST by nopardons
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To: durasell
Real estate "ladies" are lower than the old "suede shoe boys" ! You do know that N.Y.C. term,I hope.

Mortgage rates have already gone up.

It's difficult to give away property that nobody wants...it has no value.

I refuse to talk about this any more. It's not just N.Y.C. and California and some suburbs prices that are insane. Lots and lots of places have absolutely insane prices and real estate prices and houses and apartments go up and down and always shall. Oh yes,and EVERBODY has always said : " I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW THE YOUNG PEOPLE OF TODAY ARE GONNA MAKE IT."

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!

144 posted on 03/14/2005 12:57:34 AM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
YOU to say what's "right" and/or "proper",

I, and you, and the other guy. But there is conscience. There is morality.

145 posted on 03/14/2005 1:23:06 PM PST by sevry
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To: nopardons
read up on this topic

Any author in particular? And I suspect I still won't see things your way. I've said this to you a few times, already. We may agree to disagree.

146 posted on 03/14/2005 1:26:07 PM PST by sevry
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To: nopardons
Then there's also the fact that there's just so much land available and the laws of supply and demand.

You're just repeating what I wrote, in previous messages. I think you simply wish to be contentious, to be disagreeable.

147 posted on 03/14/2005 1:29:44 PM PST by sevry
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To: sevry
And there also is bankruptcy and the bottom line and competition and on and on.

Your hypotheticals and suppositions and UTOPIAN mewlings don't really have anything at all to do with reality.

148 posted on 03/14/2005 1:38:33 PM PST by nopardons
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To: sevry
This isn't a case where we can just "agree to disagree". It is factula statements (mine),versus hyperbolic UTOPIANISM and no facts at all (yours).

I'll make a book list and send it vis FREEPmail.

149 posted on 03/14/2005 1:41:37 PM PST by nopardons
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To: The Loan Arranger

Jes Beard is a freakin' lunatic.


150 posted on 03/14/2005 1:42:30 PM PST by Lazamataz (Cleverly Arranging 1's And 0's Since 11110111011...)
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To: sevry
No wonder your posts are so disjointed...you have trouble with reading comprehension.

I am NOT posting just to be "disagreeable". As a matter of fact,I'm not being "disagreeable" at all! I'm posting factual historical information,all of which you have ignored out of hand.

WHY ARE YOU IGNORING THE FACTS ?

Maybe a better question would be : WHY AM I EVEN BOTHERING WITH YOU?

You've refused to tell me your age,but perhaps you will do us all the honor to tell us if you ever owned a business,have a degree in economics and/or business, and just WHY you think that the 1930s were a "norm" for business practices.

151 posted on 03/14/2005 1:57:31 PM PST by nopardons
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To: sevry
No you are not. You are buying a myth.

You have never studied history or economic and you don't know your math. Price wise things have never been cheaper.

Food prices are held artificially high but are still lower then they were. I am sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about.

152 posted on 03/14/2005 4:56:51 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (If I were a better person, I'd ignore her and go on with my life. But I'm not.)
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To: nopardons
Thank ya ma'am.

I used to read old magazine's such as Reader's Digest from the fifties and sixties. It gives you a whole different perspective on what was going on when you read what was happening as it happened.

153 posted on 03/14/2005 4:59:38 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (If I were a better person, I'd ignore her and go on with my life. But I'm not.)
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To: nopardons
the 1930s were a "norm" for business practices.

You've created some straw man in your mind, rather than read a word of what I've written. I've not going to keep repeating myself. We're going to just have to agree to disagree.

154 posted on 03/14/2005 5:58:54 PM PST by sevry
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
you don't know your math.

The numbers I mentioned were scalars, for housing prices. But if you want a factor of increase, figure an order of magnitude and then some. Have wages increased an order of magnitude?

Maybe those 'golden parachute' packages - Franklin Raines, and such. Maybe them. But many others?

155 posted on 03/14/2005 6:01:22 PM PST by sevry
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To: sevry
Please go read YOUR post at #131...therein,you stated :"THE '30S WERE THE NORM IN THIS REGARD."

I have created nothing;let alone a straw-man argument. I have stated facts,quoted your own words, and it is not a simple case of "agree to disagree",when you are NOT saying anything valid nor credible. Wake up,take off your blinders,and look at reality for a change.

156 posted on 03/14/2005 6:15:46 PM PST by nopardons
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To: sevry
1950 Average US Annual Salary: $2,992

2004 Average US Annual Salary; $36,764

Increase by factor of twelve.

$10.00 buying power in 1950 equals $78.38 buying power 2004.

Increase by a factor of eight.

You do the math.

157 posted on 03/14/2005 6:18:43 PM PST by Harmless Teddy Bear (If I were a better person, I'd ignore her and go on with my life. But I'm not.)
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To: nopardons
THE '30S WERE

Read what I wrote - in context. Read the whole thing. I know you can do it.

a straw-man argument

That it is. Read what I wrote, instead. Because otherwise, why single me out? Why address it to me? If you want to address it to me, then address the things I specifically wrote. Fair?

158 posted on 03/14/2005 6:34:23 PM PST by sevry
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
I was alive and an adult during some of that time and I have a far better than good memory. LOL

I have a books which not only give prices of things,during various years and I am now going to post from them.

In the 1920s, the average yearly salary was $1,236.00.

The PRIME RATE was 5.4%.

Eggs cost 68 cents the dozen, milk was 17 cents a quart, bread was 12 cents a loaf.

In the 1950s, the average yearly salary was $2,992.00.

The PRIME RATE was 1.5%.

Eggs cost 72 cents the dozen, milk was 21 cents a quart, bread was 14 cents a loaf.

Now,let's throw in the 1930s.............

The average yearly salary was $1,368.00.

The PRIME RATE was 3.6%.

Eggs cost 44 cents the dozen, milk was 14 cents a quart, bread was 9 cents a loaf.

These prices are all averages.I have old magazines and very old newspapers,which I love to read and would be happy to post from them as well;which would give a more regional and pertinent year price.

159 posted on 03/14/2005 6:49:09 PM PST by nopardons
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To: sevry

Look at the figures I just posted.


160 posted on 03/14/2005 6:50:08 PM PST by nopardons
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