Posted on 03/09/2005 9:47:25 AM PST by qam1
I was thinking about this discussion after I got offline last evening. I re-reviewed the pings w/ YOUR name and them and I realized that I over-reacted to YOU (and probably under-reacted to others, such as Melas). Sometimes in the heat of conversation names blur and you find yourself quoting the wrong thing to the wrong person. After reviewing things, I came to find that I owe you a profound apology.
"I was thinking about this discussion after I got offline last evening. I re-reviewed the pings w/ YOUR name and them and I realized that I over-reacted to YOU (and probably under-reacted to others, such as Melas). Sometimes in the heat of conversation names blur and you find yourself quoting the wrong thing to the wrong person. After reviewing things, I came to find that I owe you a profound apology."
Thank you for taking the time to review my posts. I truly do appreciate that, and accept your apology as well. And if I offended you in anyway, I am truly sorry. We may not agree on everything, but we can respect each other's opinions. Peace sister. :)
Sounds like you haven't even begun shaving yet.
Now there's a reasoned and mature response. Why didn't you just say "neener, neener, so's yer ol' man!" If you are going to move to insults, I would have expected a better effort from a self-professed sailor.
Why make an effort, as long as I'm pleased myself?
Professional pride. They don't make sailors like they used to, I guess.
I don't buy Levi's, as they are major contributors to the "Brady Bunch".
When I want to insult someone, I don't care what others think. If I'm happy, that's all that matters. The nabobs can all go suck eggs for all I care.
Ok, having slept on it, I'm in a better mood. I'm going to try to explain this to you, without the slightest bit of animosity, sarcasm or venom. I'll even apologize if some of my remarks last night were biting. They shouldn't have been. Maybe you'll understand my explanation that follows, but maybe you won't. All I can do is try.
My church isn't about us, the congregation. Now of course it's about God, as all good churches are, but that's not really where I'm going either. My church is about the unchurched. Long before I was a member, our church made some very deliberate, and conscious decisions to make the unchurched feel more welcome in the house of God.
We wear street clothes, including the pastor. The pastor wears blue jeans, a casual collared shirt that he never tucks in and boots at the pulpit. You think that's disrespectful, but I assure you that none of us in our church are trying to be disrespectful.
Despite being a large, prosperous, well-to-do church, we wear street clothes. We don't wear them to be stealth Christians as you suggested, and we don't wear them to feel comfortable. We do wear them so that the unchurched, the lost, can walk off the street and into our church and if not feel comfortable, at least not feel like they should leave because they're not dressed properly.
And for the real joyful news, it works. Praise God, it works. Maybe it's the biker with the shaved head (not me) holding the door open. Maybe it's our fliers saying that if you come check us out, you should leave your checkbook at home. Maybe it's our flyer that says come as you are, and we'll love you anyway. Who knows, but it works.
We've made some other decisions along the same vein. We never ask for money. You won't hear the pastor preach a money message and you can show up at our church and never, ever worry about what the guy or girl next to you thinks when you don't put anything in the collection plate, because we don't have a collection plate. If you want to donate there are a couple anonymous donation boxes here and there.
Our music is contemporary, and lively. As our pastor points out, all church music is contemporary in the 2000 year history of the church, ours is just more so. It might sound unbelievable, but some people have actually come to our church to hear the music, and in time come to Christ.
I could go on, but this is getting too long. The Reader's Digest version is that our church "dresses down" so that our church will be inviting to the lost. That's our mission, to bring the lost to Christ. It's not about us. It's not about us being comfortable. It's not about us hiding the light. It's about us intentionally and deliberately trying to be as unintimidating to the lost as we can be.
See, Maw, I done tole ya the boy could be learned! Ya thwack him in the brainpan enough, he gets it eventually.
Ok, you've hit upon something there. I can see how someone might have a problem with someone who wore jeans to a church that a long standting tradition of dressing to the 9's.
Even do-rags?????
I think we've beaten this to death. My best to you, my friend. I'll see you on other threads.
I thought I recognized the trait. You are my brother, in spades. He was always chronologically displaced. A man simply born after time. I'm the complete opposite. I revel in the present, and I find great joy in modern life.
I think we can probably just state the rule as follows: Dress in a manner that is appropriate for the environment. If a church's congregation has decided to go casual, so be it. If they're dressier, you should do the same. If you're going to the opera, dress more formally, if you're going to a dive bar, leave the tux at home.
I still have a problem with costumery though. And that's pretty much what I think of ties. At least I can see some sort of semi-function for a sport coat.
BRAVO! I slept on it as well, and I'm certainly in a better mood. Your post was so well written that I'm just sure now that anyone who reads it will be able to grasp what you're saying, and the beauty in the message. And I, for one, couldn't agree more. Wow, very very good. Your church is doing God's work and He is obviously working through you and your congregation. I applaud you all.
Where, no doubt, we'll be siding with each other against those other ignorant louts, like as not.
I'm actually much happier working in a business casual environment, especially here in DC where having to wear a suit in the brutally hot summer is utter torture.
"I'm actually much happier working in a business casual environment, especially here in DC where having to wear a suit in the brutally hot summer is utter torture."
I've often wondered how men can wear suits and ties in the scorching summer heat. Surely it must hurt their productivity. I know my mind doesn't work very well when I'm overheated....literally and physically. har har
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