Posted on 03/09/2005 9:47:25 AM PST by qam1
NEW YORK – They've been part of the American "uniform" for years, worn to casual restaurants, house parties, and some workplaces.
But as jeans become more expensive, they are also becoming more ubiquitous, showing up everywhere from Midwestern churches to Broadway shows. Nothing is off limits, it seems. Or is it? Among those who buy high-priced, designer denim or who simply don jeans frequently - there's debate about where it's appropriate to wear them.
The tug of war over jeans etiquette is particularly prevalent in New York City. Here, people tend to be more creative about their appearance, and are often more demanding about how fashion-conscious people should look, says Dannielle Romano, editor at large for DailyCandy.com, a fashion and trends website.
Many 20- and 30-somethings here have theater backgrounds, for example, and often say it's inappropriate to wear jeans to theater and other cultural performances out of respect for the performers and the surroundings (even though the venues themselves have no official dress codes).
"I am all in favor of the current denim revolution that we are having, but I do feel that there are times when jeans should be left at home," says Lisa Kerson, a jewelry designer in her early 30s, whose parents insisted that she look nice when going to a play or traveling on a plane. "I still get bothered when I see people wearing jeans to the theater, ballet, opera, etc.," she says in an e-mail.
Melissa Popiel also prefers not to see denim at the theater, or at an engagement party. To her, jeans are OK for a house party or a casual dinner, but not for traditionally dressy places. "I don't like going to cocktail parties and seeing people in jeans," says the advertising executive, who's in her late 20s.
Ms. Popiel estimates she owns about 15 to 20 pairs, including premium brands, and has paid as much as $200 for a pair.
Many others are also paying big bucks for their jeans - from $150 to $1,000 or more per pair. Celebrities, in particular, are making jeans their garb of choice for appearances on talk shows and at some red-carpet events.
That, say fashion experts, sets the tone for the masses, who are encouraged by features like one in the Jan. 24 edition of Us magazine, "Hollywood's 10 Hottest Jeans," complete with suggestions for buying "premium" denim ($140 or more).
The concept of designer jeans is not new, however. They were also hot in the 1970s and 80s.
Are these jeans made for parties?
Etiquette experts offer few hard and fast rules about jeans, but among them are the obvious: Leave them in the closet when you're attending a wedding, or if your workplace bans them.
"A lot of it has to do with the appropriateness of the kind of jean you're wearing," says Peter Post, grandson of manners maven Emily Post and author of the book "Essential Manners for Men."
It comes down to determining if the jeans are for fashion or work. A pair that you do yard work in, for example, are "probably not appropriate to be wearing to a restaurant that night," he explains.
Mr. Post has seen men show up in quality restaurants wearing denim, which doesn't bother him as much as how sloppy their appearance sometimes is.He recalls seeing a man dressed in a T-shirt and old rumpled jeans. "He hadn't taken any care to step it up just a notch, to say to the woman he was with, 'You know, you're really important to me. I want to look good. I want you to look at me and be proud of me,' " he says.
Dark denim is making it easier for men to comfortably wear jeans in the evenings, especially since black jeans are no longer "in." But no matter how hip a certain style may be, some places are still off-limits.
"I probably won't wear them to a funeral," says Robert Smith, a 30- something businessman in Rockton, Ill. But in the past few years he's started wearing them everywhere else - to church and to most work-related functions.
Not the fabric but how it's used
The good news for jeans devotees is that standards for judging people on their appearance are loosening a bit - at least among women under 40. A recent study by Cotton Incorporated indicates that Generation X-age women (26 to 39) are less concerned about first impressions when it comes to dressing than they were 10 years ago, and more often are taking the approach that "you can't judge a book by its cover." The reverse was true for women boomer-age and older.
Alice Harris, author of the book "The Blue Jean," attributes the rise of jeans to casual Fridays in workplaces, which shifted the way people viewed dressing.
"We've actually gone back to a much simpler way of looking at it," suggests Post of the changing attitudes. It's not that certain materials, like denim, are bad. "It's what you've done with that material."
That make sense. Maybe in a larger church (which my church, with an average of 200-250 in attendance), a normative dress code does "create a feeling of familiarity". You usually know who the "newbies" are.
Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, "Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?"
He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'"
Yeah, you *say* you worship God, but your actions say that your worldly neighbors' idea of funeral wear is more important than the Biblical example of sackcloth.
Sadly, yes, today many people try to outdo each other by wearing and speaking like the lowest of the low, the crudest of the crude, and convicted criminals. Instead of calling others "elitists" or "snobs",people who don't think that dressing inappropriately is bad,should wonder just why it is they have little to no respect for themselves.Comfort and how much something costs has nothing at all to do with the debasement and inappropriateness of dress.
Tamar1973 wrote: "I worship G-d of course. However, it seems to me that the "jeans anyplace, anytime, crowd" is much more beholden to the culture that those who dress more appropriately for whatever the occasion demands of them. It seems to me that in this day and age, it is more "counter culture" to wear a dress or suit to church than to wear jeans. (It certainly would be at Chena's Church)"
Once again, Tamar1973, you have lied about what I have said, or how I feel. I find that not only rude and insulting, but sinful. You also don't know a thing about my church, or how our congregation dresses. Many of us dress up for church, and many of us don't. But you know what? We all worship God without caring about what the person next to us is wearing. We come clean and hopefully pure of heart. You also don't know how it would feel to wear a dress at 50 below zero! Get off your pedestal or God might just kick it out from under you.
I don't know where you buy your clothes,but there are dress pants which wear well and do last as long,if not longer,than dungarees. And "best" is a word used to describe one's good/dressy clothes, not those that last the longest.
The people who wear jeans to a funeral are the one's who care more about themselves than their neighbors. When one dresses appropriately for the occasion, one is showing true love and kindess for G-d and their neighbor.
How predictable. Anytime someone says that G-d has standards, you throw out the ad hominem "pharisee" label at them to see if you can say it loud enough and often enough to make it stick.
Having standards doesn't make one a Pharisee.
Having worldly standards and claiming they're from God does make one a Pharisee.
No,it doesn't. You don't understand the meaning of "Pharisee" at all.
Do not let your adornment be merely outward -- arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel -- rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. -- I Peter 3:3,4
God doesn't ask for 'dressy' clothes, apparently.
You don't understand Mark 7:1-23 at all.
I remember once when we were on a vacation with my grandparents and we wanted to go to a church in the area for Sunday worship. At first we thought that maybe we shouldn't go because we didn't have our Sunday clothes with us, but grandma reminded us that God didn't care about such things. And my grandma was a devoted Christian, and as always, right about just about everything.
Savonarola,Cromwell, and you are in complete agreement on this; doesn't make it correct,but it is a fact. LOL
The Bible doesn't have anything at all to say about what to wear to the opera,which does happen to be the actual topic of this thread.
ROTFLOL...yes, I do,but you don't and you certainly don't live your life by any of the scriptures.If you did,you wouldn't post as you do.
May I ask you a question? If someone attends your church in something other than a dress (a woman, of course..lol) are you offended? Do you believe God is offended? I sure can't understand why someone would be, and I don't believe for a minute that God is. I worked for an elderly woman last summer who always wore slacks to church. Sometimes she had to scrub the dirt off her hands from working in her flowerbeds real quick before getting to church on time. My point has been in this thread, that we, mortal people, should not be judging others, nor their relationship with the Lord, based on what they wear to church. Many a farmer has shown up in church in his jeans, clean of course, but still...they were his jeans. And the fact that he did so, does not make him any less worthy of God's love. IMO.
I am the one who said you'd make a good Pharisee, and you flatter yourself if you think I said because you dress up for church. I have no problem with those who don the "business casual" for church, or those churches where it's expected.
I called you a pharisee (rightly) because in your ignorance you insulted me, my family, my pastor and my entire church, because we worship in denim. You don't know me, my family my pastor or my church, but in your legalistic arrogance you had the gall to say that we don't respect God. You're damned skippy I called you on it, and I'll keep calling you on it.
Then how you dress for church would seem to be more a matter of respect for the congregation - the Church - than for God.
I'm not picking I swear, just asking. Having read that post in it's entirety, I have to ask: Do you feel chronologically displaced? You strike me as one of those poeple who truly laments not being born sometime in the past.
You sure do seem to be taking a lot of heat tonight for wearing appropriate clothes on Sunday. I just wanted you to know that I admire you for taking that heat with class.
"You sure do seem to be taking a lot of heat tonight for wearing appropriate clothes on Sunday. I just wanted you to know that I admire you for taking that heat with class."
I do believe you two must have something more in common than words on this thread. Tamar1973's responses have been anything but classy. She has been rude and personally insulting in her quest to prove a point. I don't mind someone having a difference of opinion, I respect that. But I do mind someone insulting people just because she disagrees with their viewpoint.
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