Posted on 03/09/2005 9:47:25 AM PST by qam1
NEW YORK – They've been part of the American "uniform" for years, worn to casual restaurants, house parties, and some workplaces.
But as jeans become more expensive, they are also becoming more ubiquitous, showing up everywhere from Midwestern churches to Broadway shows. Nothing is off limits, it seems. Or is it? Among those who buy high-priced, designer denim or who simply don jeans frequently - there's debate about where it's appropriate to wear them.
The tug of war over jeans etiquette is particularly prevalent in New York City. Here, people tend to be more creative about their appearance, and are often more demanding about how fashion-conscious people should look, says Dannielle Romano, editor at large for DailyCandy.com, a fashion and trends website.
Many 20- and 30-somethings here have theater backgrounds, for example, and often say it's inappropriate to wear jeans to theater and other cultural performances out of respect for the performers and the surroundings (even though the venues themselves have no official dress codes).
"I am all in favor of the current denim revolution that we are having, but I do feel that there are times when jeans should be left at home," says Lisa Kerson, a jewelry designer in her early 30s, whose parents insisted that she look nice when going to a play or traveling on a plane. "I still get bothered when I see people wearing jeans to the theater, ballet, opera, etc.," she says in an e-mail.
Melissa Popiel also prefers not to see denim at the theater, or at an engagement party. To her, jeans are OK for a house party or a casual dinner, but not for traditionally dressy places. "I don't like going to cocktail parties and seeing people in jeans," says the advertising executive, who's in her late 20s.
Ms. Popiel estimates she owns about 15 to 20 pairs, including premium brands, and has paid as much as $200 for a pair.
Many others are also paying big bucks for their jeans - from $150 to $1,000 or more per pair. Celebrities, in particular, are making jeans their garb of choice for appearances on talk shows and at some red-carpet events.
That, say fashion experts, sets the tone for the masses, who are encouraged by features like one in the Jan. 24 edition of Us magazine, "Hollywood's 10 Hottest Jeans," complete with suggestions for buying "premium" denim ($140 or more).
The concept of designer jeans is not new, however. They were also hot in the 1970s and 80s.
Are these jeans made for parties?
Etiquette experts offer few hard and fast rules about jeans, but among them are the obvious: Leave them in the closet when you're attending a wedding, or if your workplace bans them.
"A lot of it has to do with the appropriateness of the kind of jean you're wearing," says Peter Post, grandson of manners maven Emily Post and author of the book "Essential Manners for Men."
It comes down to determining if the jeans are for fashion or work. A pair that you do yard work in, for example, are "probably not appropriate to be wearing to a restaurant that night," he explains.
Mr. Post has seen men show up in quality restaurants wearing denim, which doesn't bother him as much as how sloppy their appearance sometimes is.He recalls seeing a man dressed in a T-shirt and old rumpled jeans. "He hadn't taken any care to step it up just a notch, to say to the woman he was with, 'You know, you're really important to me. I want to look good. I want you to look at me and be proud of me,' " he says.
Dark denim is making it easier for men to comfortably wear jeans in the evenings, especially since black jeans are no longer "in." But no matter how hip a certain style may be, some places are still off-limits.
"I probably won't wear them to a funeral," says Robert Smith, a 30- something businessman in Rockton, Ill. But in the past few years he's started wearing them everywhere else - to church and to most work-related functions.
Not the fabric but how it's used
The good news for jeans devotees is that standards for judging people on their appearance are loosening a bit - at least among women under 40. A recent study by Cotton Incorporated indicates that Generation X-age women (26 to 39) are less concerned about first impressions when it comes to dressing than they were 10 years ago, and more often are taking the approach that "you can't judge a book by its cover." The reverse was true for women boomer-age and older.
Alice Harris, author of the book "The Blue Jean," attributes the rise of jeans to casual Fridays in workplaces, which shifted the way people viewed dressing.
"We've actually gone back to a much simpler way of looking at it," suggests Post of the changing attitudes. It's not that certain materials, like denim, are bad. "It's what you've done with that material."
You are making broad comparisons between several different points that have been made by several different people. I know that I, for one, never said that I "don't believe that God's word has anything to say about what to wear and when to wear it, or that the Bible has any standards for your lives". Anyone can open up the Bible and play what I refer to as "Bible Bingo" in their attempts to come up with some quote that can be interpreted in such a way as to support any given argument.
And I never said I thought it was o.k. for people to go to church dirty....or "white" (unclean) as you put it.
Perhaps you aren't trying to be insulting, but IMO, you are being terribly insulting to those who don't agree with your particular religious beliefs. God loves all of those who believe and worship Him. I do not believe you are any better than the rest of us in spite of what you might think.
Remind me to NEVER ask you for film and opera and theatre recommendations. LOL
Damn straight for the 501's.
Since moving up to the Pacific Northwest I've become accustomed to the "formal" side of jeans: a nice pair of 501's, a solid-color (anything but white) dress shirt or fine tee-shirt (depending on the weather), and a jacket--a good, plain white or black blazer will do.
I'm goin' to be so out-of-place moving back to OKC....
Well, I find it terribly insulting when people who dress like "slobs" claim that those of us who dress respectfully in G-d's house are "pharisees" and that because you wear jeans to church that your heart automatically is more pure, unmaterialistic and right w/ G-d than the guy next to you who cared enough to dress respectfully for the occasion.
I also find it insulting to me that you think people who dress nicely in G-d's house think they are "better than the rest of us". It's elitist enough to make you gag.
I think that might be the real reason you find it a more spiritual experience. It's a smaller church where "everybody knows your name". That will almost always make one feel more connected w/ others and with G-d.
Actually,people began to wear jeans to the theatre in '73. This was when the hippie influence drove some people to dress inappropriately and it's been downhill ever since,with the lowest common denominator supplanting what had always been an upwardly striving momentum. In the Middle Ages and again during the Renaissance, kings and/or governments passed sumptuary laws, forbidding all but the highest segments of society from wearing certain materials and styles.And until the last few decades,people's aspirations for betterment of themselves and their position,had them emulating what was once called "their betters".
It is only in recent history (and no,Marie Antoinette's sometimes predilection for wearing a "sheperdess's dress",doesn't count !),that many people wear clothing that either is that of convicted criminals, IN JAIL,or that of the lowest of low rung workers,as an all around uniform.
"I think that might be the real reason you find it a more spiritual experience. It's a smaller church where "everybody knows your name". That will almost always make one feel more connected w/ others and with G-d."
Amen, sister!!!!!!
"Well, I find it terribly insulting when people who dress like "slobs" claim that those of us who dress respectfully in G-d's house are "pharisees" and that because you wear jeans to church that your heart automatically is more pure, unmaterialistic and right w/ G-d than the guy next to you who cared enough to dress respectfully for the occasion.
I also find it insulting to me that you think people who dress nicely in G-d's house think they are "better than the rest of us". It's elitist enough to make you gag."
I NEVER said that someone who chooses to dress up for church is a Pharisee! I NEVER said that those who wear jeans, or any other casual attire, is more pure, unmaterialistic and right than someone who chooses to wear something fancier. I have only said that someone who worships in jeans, etc., shouldn't be judged by other people in the congregation based on their clothing, which is what you are doing. You've been judging people, not me. I could never be considered an "elitist". That is so absurd that anyone who knows of me and my family would laugh their head off at what you just said. sheesh!
Might help if I paid attention to what I was cheering.
Amen to "I also find it insulting to me that you think people who dress nicely in G-d's house think they are "better than the rest of us". It's elitist enough to make you gag."
Define "best," using Scripture. I want specific fabrics, cuts and styles. I want to know that you're making your distinctions based on God's standards, not worldly man-made ones.
So far, you've basically got "wear sackcloth to a funeral." Do you wear sackcloth to funerals?
Kind of ironic that at one time, if you tried to dress better than "your station" you could be thrown in jail for it. Despite that, people often did dress as "their betters" because they wanted to be seen more respectibly. Now people seem to revel and compete between themselves to dress as slovenly as possible in as many places as possible. What a shame.
But I don't wear JEANS to a funeral either. I wear black, which is what THIS culture expects of one who goes to a house of mourning.
I do not understand why you are personally insulting me. How can I, who is saying that we shouldn't judge others on their appearance be accused of being arrogant?
Which one do you worship, God or "culture"?
It used to be common knowledge that people behaved differently, depending upon what they wore. There were school clothes, play clothes, and dress-up/party/church clothes for children and comparable ones for adults. And this was a time,when people did NOT own ,many clothes (even those in the upper middle class and above !); unlike today.
Perhaps. Maybe the social strictures of dress code a large churches are to create a feeling of familiarity that occurs in a smaller congregation without it.
My best clothes are those that last the longest. They are stiched securely and made of fabric that doesn't tear easily. In terms of pants, this means jeans. I've never, ever had a pair of dress pants that would stay in good condition as long as a pair of jeans, assuming equal duration of wear.
I worship G-d of course. However, it seems to me that the "jeans anyplace, anytime, crowd" is much more beholden to the culture that those who dress more appropriately for whatever the occasion demands of them. It seems to me that in this day and age, it is more "counter culture" to wear a dress or suit to church than to wear jeans. (It certainly would be at Chena's Church)
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.