Posted on 03/09/2005 9:47:25 AM PST by qam1
NEW YORK – They've been part of the American "uniform" for years, worn to casual restaurants, house parties, and some workplaces.
But as jeans become more expensive, they are also becoming more ubiquitous, showing up everywhere from Midwestern churches to Broadway shows. Nothing is off limits, it seems. Or is it? Among those who buy high-priced, designer denim or who simply don jeans frequently - there's debate about where it's appropriate to wear them.
The tug of war over jeans etiquette is particularly prevalent in New York City. Here, people tend to be more creative about their appearance, and are often more demanding about how fashion-conscious people should look, says Dannielle Romano, editor at large for DailyCandy.com, a fashion and trends website.
Many 20- and 30-somethings here have theater backgrounds, for example, and often say it's inappropriate to wear jeans to theater and other cultural performances out of respect for the performers and the surroundings (even though the venues themselves have no official dress codes).
"I am all in favor of the current denim revolution that we are having, but I do feel that there are times when jeans should be left at home," says Lisa Kerson, a jewelry designer in her early 30s, whose parents insisted that she look nice when going to a play or traveling on a plane. "I still get bothered when I see people wearing jeans to the theater, ballet, opera, etc.," she says in an e-mail.
Melissa Popiel also prefers not to see denim at the theater, or at an engagement party. To her, jeans are OK for a house party or a casual dinner, but not for traditionally dressy places. "I don't like going to cocktail parties and seeing people in jeans," says the advertising executive, who's in her late 20s.
Ms. Popiel estimates she owns about 15 to 20 pairs, including premium brands, and has paid as much as $200 for a pair.
Many others are also paying big bucks for their jeans - from $150 to $1,000 or more per pair. Celebrities, in particular, are making jeans their garb of choice for appearances on talk shows and at some red-carpet events.
That, say fashion experts, sets the tone for the masses, who are encouraged by features like one in the Jan. 24 edition of Us magazine, "Hollywood's 10 Hottest Jeans," complete with suggestions for buying "premium" denim ($140 or more).
The concept of designer jeans is not new, however. They were also hot in the 1970s and 80s.
Are these jeans made for parties?
Etiquette experts offer few hard and fast rules about jeans, but among them are the obvious: Leave them in the closet when you're attending a wedding, or if your workplace bans them.
"A lot of it has to do with the appropriateness of the kind of jean you're wearing," says Peter Post, grandson of manners maven Emily Post and author of the book "Essential Manners for Men."
It comes down to determining if the jeans are for fashion or work. A pair that you do yard work in, for example, are "probably not appropriate to be wearing to a restaurant that night," he explains.
Mr. Post has seen men show up in quality restaurants wearing denim, which doesn't bother him as much as how sloppy their appearance sometimes is.He recalls seeing a man dressed in a T-shirt and old rumpled jeans. "He hadn't taken any care to step it up just a notch, to say to the woman he was with, 'You know, you're really important to me. I want to look good. I want you to look at me and be proud of me,' " he says.
Dark denim is making it easier for men to comfortably wear jeans in the evenings, especially since black jeans are no longer "in." But no matter how hip a certain style may be, some places are still off-limits.
"I probably won't wear them to a funeral," says Robert Smith, a 30- something businessman in Rockton, Ill. But in the past few years he's started wearing them everywhere else - to church and to most work-related functions.
Not the fabric but how it's used
The good news for jeans devotees is that standards for judging people on their appearance are loosening a bit - at least among women under 40. A recent study by Cotton Incorporated indicates that Generation X-age women (26 to 39) are less concerned about first impressions when it comes to dressing than they were 10 years ago, and more often are taking the approach that "you can't judge a book by its cover." The reverse was true for women boomer-age and older.
Alice Harris, author of the book "The Blue Jean," attributes the rise of jeans to casual Fridays in workplaces, which shifted the way people viewed dressing.
"We've actually gone back to a much simpler way of looking at it," suggests Post of the changing attitudes. It's not that certain materials, like denim, are bad. "It's what you've done with that material."
As one of my favorite Freepers and someone who seems to know about fashion, I have a question for you: what is appropriate attire for a Gen Xer attending a performance by a symphony orchestra, which I am doing tomorrow night? Just curious.
Not even a little bit. We're talking about judging people's taste and understanding of decorum based upon their attire.
Of course dress codes are absolutely arbitrary and to argue otherwise is ludicrous. I don't think arbitrary means what you think it means. Arbitrary means "Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle," according to Dictionary.com.
Standards of dress are not arbitrary. There are well-established rules as to what is appropriate in a given situation.
Exactly. We don't have a collection plate either. The whole idea is to make church accessable.
Yeah, on that particular day, I just didn't have time to run store to store. I was already in the second store when I gave up and bought the Levi's.
MM
"Hey, that's America. Out here we have "Surf Church" and "Beach Church;" very informal. Myself, I want high ritual, pipe organ, stained glass, dark corners, incense, Latin, and no half-measures. Worship (and dress, I suppose) as you see fit."
I've heard of churches like that (beach churches, etc.). I also enjoy the traditional style of churches (pipe organ, rituals, etc.) I am mindful of the fact that all "churches" are created and built by man, and I believe that they are what we, as humans, felt were comforting and pleasing to us, and we hope, please to God as well.
Then again, I must admit there are times when one hears sermons about helping the poor and sick, and then at the end of the service gather to discuss what we'll do with the church funds as to what that "needed" addition to the church should look like and who should be hired to design it, or "new gowns for the choir", .....well, sometimes I wonder if that money shouldn't have been given to those less fortunate even if it meant we would have to worship God on the beach. I'm sometimes confused by what we consider "traditional" churches, with all the fancy stuff, and if it really IS pleasing to God. sigh
In Texas a man who's wearing a fanny pack is advertising that he's a cheap SOB who won't spring for a decent holster.
When I see a person (who's not homeless or hopelessly poor) wearing jeans to churches, weddings, funerals, etc., I see a very selfish person who respects no one, not even themselves.
I'm 25 and I'm a tattooed rock and roll guy, but I took my girlfriend to the philharmonic last month.
I wore a dress shirt, coat, and tie. She wore a nice dress.
FWIW I don't think it should matter how old you are or what generation you are, it's more of a respect for yourself, your date, and the institution.
But apparently I'm an elitist snob according to some people here...
"In Texas a man who's wearing a fanny pack is advertising that he's a cheap SOB who won't spring for a decent holster."
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Now admittedly there are some circumstances where one should dress up (see my prior posts) but going to the store (Which includes ALL places where you are buying anything) is not one of them.
Just for the record, I don't think you're an elitist snob. I think you dress up when you feel it is appropriate attire and by the sounds of it, you treat your girlfriend with respect and treat her as she deserves. I do respect your opinions.
Matthew 22:10-14: "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests. 11 "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes, 12 and he said to him, `Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless. 13 "Then the king said to the servants, `Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."
Well...it seems like you named yourself right, then if have actually worn jeans to a wedding and a funeral. Sounds like you are too lazy to dress appropriately....:(....or didn't have any respect for the other people.
And no, not everyone looks the same in a suit whether they're a biker or a billionaire. The shaved head, goatee (van dyke really) down to my breast bone, too tan face and wind worn face, earing, etc etc all scream that I don't belong in a suit.
Even though I can get away with not wearing a tie because you can't see it under the beard anyway, I'm obviously uncomfortable to boot, which just further exacerbates the whole image. Nothing looks worse on a man than the pained look that he'd rather be lying down on the runway at the airport.
I wear jeans boots and western shirts or blouses every day to work at my job and I am in the top administrative position for our branch of an international corporation. No hat, it'd mess up my hairdo (long, straight w/pouf on top and bangs like some of the older country singers used to wear). So...I guess you'd call me a KIKKer, but I'd prefer country girl. Hubby wears a white straw cowboy hat, but he is an area supervisor for a commercial electrical company, so the redneck look isn't out of place there...he's even got long hair that he keeps in a ponytail. And ugh...Gilley's...we don't do bars. We don't like the city, give us horses for neighbors any day.
Some of us think that passage of scripture refers to spiritual adornment, not actual clothing.
Soooooo, you're making the point, using Scripture, that God feels disrespected if we worship him while not wearing "wedding clothes"? As in what we call our "fancy clothes"?
Gosh, I guess I'd better quit worshiping Him unless I'm wearing the right outfit. "Honey, can I have some money please? I need a dress or God is going to be really really mad at me!" Something about that just doesn't ring true. hmmm
Then how do you explain this text?!
1 Cor. 5:12: For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
I agree that we should not "judge" people who are wearing baseball caps in restaurants, etc. However, when it comes to the things of G-d, we are call upon, even commanded to exercise G-dly discernment.
1 Cor. 6:2-3: Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?
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