Retailers want 16-hour trucker workday (Walmart)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/08/trucker.rules.ap/index.html ^ | 3-9-05

[RushCrush]

I guess my point - that seems to be escaping most- is that people are capable of working long hours. And it should be up to them to decide.

What about farmers who work in the fields for hours upon end? or people who work in factories doing dangerous work for long hours?

It's not like this is the first time since the dawn of time that people have worked long hours.

There are also safety requirements that truckers must adhere to in order to keep their job. I would be willing to put trucker driving records up against any slice of the general population, and bet you that the average yahoo on the road, maybe doing a 15 minute drive, is way more dangerous than truckers.

[dmz]

And the counterpoint that you appear to be missing is that there is a qualitative difference between a warehouse guy packing boxes for shipment, or a farmer in the field, or the CEO of a company, working 16 hours a day and somebody driving a truck 16 hours a day.

[RushCrush]

WEll that is obviously true.

There are plenty of dangerous jobs out there- is truck driving the most dangerous? I doubt it.

Are these jobs performed for long hours? probably.

Do we need more restrictive legislation on any portion of our lives? NO

[ikka]

You say "I am firing you as my customer and I am not putting any of your freight on my truck anymore."

[-YYZ-]

Yeah, except the average yahoo is not driving 50 tons of truck and trailer that will squash other vehicles like bugs if he loses control of it.

[cripplecreek]

A lot of farmers are injured or die in their fields and a lot of people are injured at work or die on their way home from a 12 to 16 hour day.

You're right about truck drivers being safer than the average driver but pushing them harder isn't going to do much for that safety. There is a reason P.A.T.T. (parents against tired truckers) reversed their attacks on drivers. They realized that no driver wanted to get themselves killed or wanted to kill someone else. They recognized that it was primarilly the fault of the companies that push drivers too hard.


http://www.patt.org/

[Richard Kimball]

Walmart may have some hourly paid, but they also contract heavily with independents. A friend of mine ran a small trucking company, and contracted with Walmart. They were tough to contract with. Cell phone wired into the truck and GPS. Walmart gave you the route and a window of arrival. You were contacted by Big Brother if you went more than ten miles off designated route, or arrived early or late. They didn't want you there early because that meant you'd been speeding.

[Mensius]

Just for point of reference:
The hours of service rules are:

11 hours allowable driving in a day.
10 hours off after completion of 11 driving hours.
70 hours maximum driving in an 8 day period.

Now the 16 hour workday is so that a shipper or reciever does
not take up 8 hours of a workday (unpaid) unloading or
loading a truck, thus leaving the truck driver with six hours to work
during his workday. Can't stop for lunch, a nap, etc.

This propasal is purely to give a bigger window for the truck drivers to
complete there 10 or 11 hour days.

[cripplecreek]

My mother drives for Shneider National on a Wal Mart contract and says it's the worst she's ever done. She's home almost 3 whole days of every month to boot!

[M. Dodge Thomas]

I have a radical idea. Why don't we allow two individuals to voluntarily contract with each other without governmental interference.

Public safety issue - GOGGLE "sleep deprivation driving" - for example testing suggests that driving after being awake for 17-19 hours on a *single day* produces impairment equivalent to a BAL of .05, three consecutive days pushes that above .1.

So in terms of safety implications, this is a plan to put drunks behind the wheels of large trucks.

You will certainly find individuals who believe they can drive accident free under such conditions - and perhaps some can.

But from a public safety perspective that's like letting someone drive after 6 beers because "they can handle it" - by the time we find out if it their judgment was accurate or not, it's too late to bring back someone who was killed because a sleep deprived or intoxicated driver misjudged their own ability.

[M. Dodge Thomas]

I have a radical idea. Why don't we allow two individuals to voluntarily contract with each other without governmental interference.

Public safety issue - GOGGLE "sleep deprivation driving" - for example testing suggests that driving after being awake for 17-19 hours on a *single day* produces impairment equivalent to a BAL of .05, three consecutive days pushes that above .1.

So in terms of safety implications, this is a plan to put drunks behind the wheels of large trucks.

You will certainly find individuals who believe they can drive accident free under such conditions - and perhaps some can.

But from a public safety perspective that's like letting someone drive after 6 beers because "they can handle it" - by the time we find out if it their judgment was accurate or not, it's too late to bring back someone who was killed because a sleep deprived or intoxicated driver misjudged their own ability.

[traviskicks]

The problem is, the deaths and destruction caused by the unsafe working conditions of an overtired or asleep driver behind the wheel of a multiton truck.
---

This is a completely seperate issue. If a trucker drinks while driving who is culpable? If a trucker puts others at risk with irresponsible behavior, such as trying to stay up for 3 days strait then the trucker is criminally liable and his case will then be judged by the courts. The role of the person on the other end of the contract is meaningless.

All I know is that, like all needless, pointless and hurtful regulations imposed by government, the current rules are routinely flaunted by many, if not most, current truck drivers.

I used to routinly drive from Tallahssee Fl to West Chester Pennsylvania, a 20 hour drive in my CRX, by myself and without a radio. Should I be thrown in Jail?

Irregardless, the whole point is that the criminal issue of endagering other drivers needs to be legally seperate from a company offering such contracts such as Wall-Mart.

To not do so is opening up the gates to Tyranny and inhibiting freedom, liberty, and degrading morality, by the passing of endless emotional knee jerk regulations and rules until all enterprise and inovation has been stiffled by the 'nanny state'.

And yeah, private roads would solve this debate. But thats another issue. :)

[Valpal1]

The qualitative difference is that truckers are performing their jobs on public roads. Farmers and factory workers and CEO's aren't.

It's that public road thing that gives the public a vested interest in the working conditions. If they were driving on their own private roads it wouldn't matter.

[EagleMamaMT]

"Chairman Mao's General Store"

LOL! Great name for the Great Wall Mart! :)

Good post, BTW!

[Squawk 8888]

I'll be cool with it just as soon they install a dead-man pedal in every rig.

[Kretek]

Now the 16 hour workday is so that a shipper or reciever does not take up 8 hours of a workday (unpaid) unloading or loading a truck, thus leaving the truck driver with six hours to work during his workday. Can't stop for lunch, a nap, etc.

This propasal is purely to give a bigger window for the truck drivers to complete there 10 or 11 hour days.

Here's the problem: if the driver has been awake for those eight hours while they load or unload the truck, they're still not as alert as they could be. I have no problem with 11 hours allowable driving, just so long as there's the mandatory rest period immediately before it!

[RushCrush]

Dead horse: being kicked.

[Smogger]

If a trucker is willing to work 16 hours and Wall-Mart is willing to pay them for it, then what is the problem?

The problem is it's not safe:

In 2001, 429,000 large trucks (gross vehicle weight rating greater than 10,000 lbs.) were involved in traffic crashes in the United States: 4,793 were involved in fatal crashes. A total of 5,082 people died (12 percent of all the traffic fatalities reported in 2001) and an additional 131,000 were injured in those crashes.

In 2000, large trucks accounted for 4 percent of all registered vehicles and 7 percent of total vehicle miles traveled (2001 registered vehicle and vehicle miles traveled data not available). In 2001, large trucks accounted for 8 percent of all vehicles involved in fatal crashes and 4 percent of all vehicles involved in injury and property-damage-only crashes.

The 1998 NHTSA data also demonstrate that:

Large trucks accounted for 3% of all registered vehicles, 9% of all vehicles involved in fatal crashes, and were involved in 13% of all passenger vehicle occupant deaths.

More than one out of every five passenger vehicle occupant deaths was the result of a multi- vehicle collision in which a large truck was involved.

Of the 5,374 fatalities in collisions involving large trucks 86% were occupants of other vehicles, and non-occupants.

Of the 126,000 injuries in crashes involving large trucks 78% were occupants of other vehicles, and non-occupants.

[Rakkasan1]

having once been hit by a semi trucker who was on speed
trying to stay awake, I'd say this is a bad idea.

[Richard Kimball]

When I was a kid, one of my uncles was a trucker, and it was the epitome of freedom. Today, it's got all the drawbacks of a desk job with a boss looking over your shoulder.