Opinion: Apple -- Here to Stay

MacCentral ^ | March 08, 2005 | Don Tennant

[r5boston]

Nearly a decade ago, just a few months after Microsoft shipped Windows 95, I asked Bill Gates if it was a conscious decision in the development of that product to give Windows more of a Mac look and feel. Of course I knew he'd say it wasn't, but I couldn't resist asking. "There was no goal even to compete with Macintosh," Gates proclaimed. "We don't even think of Macintosh as a competitor."

That was a crock, so I pressed the issue a little. I asked him how he accounted for the widespread perception that Windows 95 looked a lot like Mac 88, and whether the similarity was just a coincidence. I didn't expect a sobbing confession of mimicry, but I thought it would be cool to see how he'd respond. Surprisingly enough, Gates shifted gears and became more forthcoming.

[cowboyway]

"I just don’t get the overwhelming appeal of the iPod, Apple’s MP3 player. It’s a beautiful device to be sure, but it does exactly what many, many other similar players do: It plays MP3s. Other brands are better, less expensive, have more capacity, are easier to use, and so on. But the iPod has something more than 85% market share. That’s incredible - that’s like finding that 85% of people in the country drive Toyota Camrys. It just doesn’t make sense." -USA Today

Let's try that again:

"I just don’t get the overwhelming appeal of Windows, Bill Gates operating system. It’s a operating system to be sure, but it does exactly what many, many other similar operating systems do: It performs computer operations. Other brands are better, less expensive, have more capacity, are easier to use, and so on. But Windows has something more than 85% market share. That’s incredible - that’s like finding that 85% of people in the country drive Toyota Camrys. It just doesn’t make sense."

cowboyway

[antiRepublicrat]

Let's try that again:

I loved it! But it fails on one problem: Unlike Windows, the iPod is actually a superior product, even if it costs more to get the same specs.

[Last Visible Dog]

According to Apple, the installed base of Mac OS X has grown to over 14 million as of January...

How is that supposed to be supporting evidence for this claim you made:

Most folks know that Macs are better than Windows PC, but said that Macs were too expensive for their budget.

Do you have any supporting evidence for your claim that most computer users know "Macs are better than Windows PC" or did you pull that out of your MacArse (or should that be IArse)

[steelyourfaith]

My G5 Rawks.

[MississippiMan]

Apple is good. Microsoft is the one on the ropes right now. with Linux coming on and with Apple (which is a UNIX base anyway) still taking a quarter to a third of the market alone, Microsoft is feeling the squeeze....

Sorry, man, but that's so inaccurate it approaches delusional. Apple is nowhere REMOTELY near a 25% market share. I'd be surprised if they have 5%. Sheesh.

MM

[Last Visible Dog]

Apple made it affordable and usable for the masses (using Xerox's engineers)

Microsoft basically just copied

Silly statements like that are why nobody takes you seriously.

Funny you forgot to mention Xerox sued Apple over stealing their GUI. Apple Mac's are little more than an ascetic in the history of computers - clearly Microsoft made the GUI affordable and usable by the masses (that is why MS has 90% of the market and Apple has 3%)

[antiRepublicrat]

Do you have any supporting evidence for your claim that most computer users know "Macs are better than Windows PC"

I'll go against HAL on this one. Most people don't even know there are alternatives to Windows. I've seen people shocked when they saw Linux or Mac machines, saying "But it's not Windows, how can a computer run without Windows?" To them, "Windows" is synonymous with "Computer," just like "Explorer" is synonymous with "World Wide Web" given those I've seen who were surprised you can surf the WWW with something besides IE.

OTOH, a lot of people have been introduced to the concept of other systems by buying iPods, as lots of PC iPod buyers are switching to Mac.

[bigsigh]

pro apple has always been hip, while pro gates is corporate. At least that's the marketing.

[antiRepublicrat]

Funny you forgot to mention Xerox sued Apple over stealing their GUI.

And you forgot to mention they lost.

clearly Microsoft made the GUI affordable and usable by the masses (that is why MS has 90% of the market and Apple has 3%)

Wrong. Microsoft dominated by compatibility. DOS ruled all, then Windows 3.x was compatible with DOS, then Windows 9x was compatible with Windows 3.x and DOS, then the easy migration to Windows NT/2K/XP. This allowed a smooth upgrade from the already millions of DOS app installs.

Of course, that compatibility is at the cost of system stability, usability and security.

[Bush2000]

My last Linux-oriented administrator would easily question that. They're quite easy, if you know what you're doing. Since you don't, you assume no one else does.

You must have me confused with someone else. I use and administer Linux boxes every day; in all likelihood, I could mop the floor with anybody you could provide. So I'm familiar with the differences between the platforms -- and, I must say, administering Windows boxes takes far less time than Linux. BUT: You have to make an initial investment in configuring them properly. That means no running as Admin, turn on the firewall, install an antivirus program, push updates and app deployment thru global system policy, stop malicious email attachments at the server, do proxy filtering to limit what people can do online, etc. That's just rational IT policy. And you've already admitted that you're unwilling/unable to do them same. Which means you have to deal with cowboy users causing damage. I don't; hence, it doesn't take me much time.

If my specs say MS SQL Server required, then I don't even consider Macs or Linux, so there's no TCO comparison.

Many users are faced with equivalent dilemmas -- and the dearth of choices on the Mac makes it harder.

Where did you get that last part from?

See above

[Last Visible Dog]

Show me an 80gb Nomad for $175 or a 40gb Nomad for $150, a 2gb Nomad for $75 or a 1gb Nomad for $50.

I bought a 40GB Nomad for $179. The Ipod 20GB cost $299. That is about half the price for twice the storage (meaning in reality the Ipod is more than twice as expensive). My Nomad cost $4.48 per gigabyte of storage. The Ipod cost $14.95 per gigabyte of storage (the Ipod is over three times as expensive). Add to that the Ipod does not support all popular audio formats and you see just how much you are paying for the little Apple logo. It is your money and you are free to spend it any way you like.

The Ipods are: $350 for the 40gb,

8.75 per gigabyte of storage

$300 for the 20gb

$15 per gigabyte of storage

$150 for the 1gb

$150 per gigabyte of storage (isn't that special)

and $100 for the 512mb.

$200 per gigabyte of storage (wow)

Now I got a really good deal on my Nomad (last December from Best Buy - part of it was a rebate) - but just taking the current prices on Amazon:

Nomad 40GB - $239 (Amazon) - 5.97 per gigabyte
Ipod 40GB - $353 (Amazon) - 8.82 per gigabyte
Nomad 20GB - $249 (Amazon) - 12.45 per gigabyte
Ipod 20GB - $299 (Amazon) - 14.95 per gigabyte

Not every comparison is twice as much but it is always more expensive to buy an Ipod and the Ipod does not support WMA format. Now I did a bizrate search and found you get a Nomad 40GB as low as $218 but I have not found the $179 deal again (guess I was just lucky). The cheapest Ipod 40GB deal from bizrate is $299. Bottom line: the Ipod always costs more and does a bit less...but you do get that little Apple logo. BTW: I am only comparing the Ipod to the Creative Nomad - there are many more MP3 players and for the most part they are all cheaper and most do more than the Ipod.

You're lying through your teeth when you say you can get a Nomad with twice the storage for the half the price.

Actually you are correct - when you do the math the Ipod is over THREE TIMES AS EXPENSIVE AS MY NOMAD! (you better be very careful with who you are claiming is lying when it turns out you are the one that does not have their facts straight.

The Ipod is a very nice device but it is way over priced.

[Melas]

$150 per gigabyte of storage (isn't that special)

That's for the 1gb Ipod which is a flash based player. Show me a cheaper 1gb flash based player. I paid $69 for a 128mb Muvo.

[Last Visible Dog]

If the iPod has 85% market share, who is your 'growing mob?' The USA Today? The other 15%?

No question, the Ipod dominates - just like Windows PC's domination and that alone proves Windows is the best product - right?

The mob of people that don't do Ipods is larger percent than Apples share of the computer market.

These debates get so polarized - far more than I want to be. The Ipod is a great device and except for the lack of WMA support (which is a big problem), I find absolutely nothing wrong with the Ipod except it is overpriced like nearly all Apple products. You have to pay for that little Apple logo. I preferred to pay less, get more storage and get support for my WMA files.

If you want to buy an Ipod - Go for it, dude. You'll love it! If you want to keep more of your money - look at all the other options. I think the MP3 (little hard drive) model is the greatest thing to happen to music since satellite radio - actually better. I can put a very big chunk of my very large music collection into a device a little bigger than a pack of cigarettes - that is pretty darn cool.

And how much of your life have you been following growing mobs?

I don't follow mobs - unless they are mobs of scantily clad women.

[Last Visible Dog]

The average battery life is a lot longer than the iPod warranty.

Do you have any data to back up that statement of did you just make it up?

[Last Visible Dog]

Gates plan is to so completely mimic the Mac, that the entire world becomes computer illiterate zombies, unable to do our own computing and forced to kneel at the Microsoft throne. Viva la Gatesware!

Like I said, the MacHeads sure seem to have the best weed. Stop bogarting Cowboy...

[Last Visible Dog]

Importing a non-protected WMA file into iTunes automatically converts it to AAC, which can readily be stored on the iPod. You're WRONG again.

If it coverts it to the Apple format, it is no longer a WMA file. Converting compressed files degrades the quality. Don't be a bozo - you are wrong - I said the Ipod does not support WMA files and I am correct.

In this very thread, you quoted $300 for the iPod and $179 after rebate for the Nomad. That's not twice the price.

That is why I said "almost" half the price most of the times I made that comparison. If you calculate the cost per gigabyte the Ipod is 3 times more than my Nomad. Remember the $300 Ipod has half the storage of the $179 Nomad I bought

The only limit on audio formats with a basis in reality is the bar on protected WMA files (presumably because Bill Gates won't license the capability to Apple).

The Ipod does not support WMA files AT ALL! Converting a WMA file to Apple's format makes the file no longer a WMA file and degrades the quality.

[Last Visible Dog]

Bill might be harsh (having brought an ill-prepared interviewee to tears), but he's very businesslike.

I was at the official launch of .NET - Bill Gates was the keynote speaker - I was like two rows away from him - he was one of the most boring speakers I have ever experienced. I have also been at a keynote given by Steve Ballmer, energy radiates from the man - he is the Anti-BillGates.

[Bush2000]

It doesn't equate. Mac users are used to quality software, so the crap stuff dies quickly, while it lives on in the Windows world.

LMFAO! Put down the bong and go to Office Depot or Circuit City or your favorite software store and try to find Mac software. The fact remains that there isn't very much of it. Software vendors just aren't willing to stick their necks out for a company with a mere 2% of the desktop market. Just doesn't make economic sense.

[Bush2000]

I was at an industry conference a few years back -- and Ballmer entered the stage by crashing through a wall of rubber blocks, and did his classic "pump up the volume" jumping around. The guy was hysterical. There aren't many people like him in the industry. Watching Jobs was like watching mold grow, with his effete, dressed-all-in-black-and-turtleneck facade. Snoresville. Zzzzzzzzzz.

[Bush2000]

... lots of PC iPod buyers are switching to Mac.

Seriously, where do you get your dope? I wanna party with you, cowboy...