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Opinion: Apple -- Here to Stay
MacCentral ^ | March 08, 2005 | Don Tennant

Posted on 03/08/2005 12:06:04 PM PST by r5boston

Nearly a decade ago, just a few months after Microsoft shipped Windows 95, I asked Bill Gates if it was a conscious decision in the development of that product to give Windows more of a Mac look and feel. Of course I knew he'd say it wasn't, but I couldn't resist asking. "There was no goal even to compete with Macintosh," Gates proclaimed. "We don't even think of Macintosh as a competitor."

That was a crock, so I pressed the issue a little. I asked him how he accounted for the widespread perception that Windows 95 looked a lot like Mac 88, and whether the similarity was just a coincidence. I didn't expect a sobbing confession of mimicry, but I thought it would be cool to see how he'd respond. Surprisingly enough, Gates shifted gears and became more forthcoming.

(Excerpt) Read more at macworld.com ...


TOPICS: Technical
KEYWORDS: apple; bendover4macs; billgatesisaborg; billgatesknowsyourip; bluescreenofdeath; dosindisguise; downgradetoxp; gays4macs; mac; macandpcssuckequally; maccult; macmoonies; macs4bigots; macsr4gays; macuser; macvspcwhocares; microcrap; microsoft; onyourkneesforbillg; patchmypcsystemdaily; pccrap; pcvirusmagnet; pencilneckpcgeeks; resistanceisfutile; slowdownmypcwithxp; usb2isajoke; winblows; xpbloatware; youwillbeasimilated
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To: antiRepublicrat; HAL9000
I can't stand either of them.

Oh, c'mon. You and Hal wouldn't hesitate to bend over backwards for Stevie...
241 posted on 03/09/2005 1:28:23 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: Proud_texan
What I get a kick out of it's the cool aid drinkers that defend a company that advised John Kerry and has Al Gore on it's board.

Must... not... drink... Kool-Aid... Must... respond ... rationally

Ahem... Ummm. You and what army? No.

Oh yeah?

Nope, not it either.

Ah, screw it. I doubt I'll be buying a PC anytime soon. I doubt I'll be voting Democrat anytime soon.

242 posted on 03/09/2005 1:28:58 PM PST by SlowBoat407 (Bekaa to the future!)
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To: antiRepublicrat
He's right. None of them have as good an interface as the iPod, you can't select your songs or playlists as quickly, and none have such ergonomic controls. Others may beat the iPod on price, capacity, or the addition of a radio or such, but none are as high quality and easy to use.

When is Apple ever going to learn its lesson on market dynamics? The iPod isn't a bad device but, at the end of the day, it's just a MP3-ish player with a hard drive strapped to it. Apple charges a boatload of cash for it. Far too much, now that it's facing competitive pressures from superb devices costing half its price and offering twice as much capacity. I don't care how much ease of functionality that litle interface wheel provides -- or how much better you think the player electronics are. Apple isn't going to maintain its market share by charging those kind of prices. My prediction is that Apple will blow its lead in this market by clinging to its premium pricing strategy -- and it's already trying to stem its losses by introducing lower cost devices with a fraction of the capability of the more expensive devices. It won't be enough, though. Watch.
243 posted on 03/09/2005 1:39:12 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: Bush2000
Oh, c'mon. You and Hal wouldn't hesitate to bend over backwards for Stevie.

Get over yourself. Jobs is a raving egomaniac. Bill might be harsh (having brought an ill-prepared interviewee to tears), but he's very businesslike. I think I'd rather work for Bill, except that I know I wouldn't be developing cutting-edge products.

244 posted on 03/09/2005 1:39:49 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: SlowBoat407
Hmm. I never realized how much time I was wasting on my sailboat and in the theater.

Oh, God. Sing us a few show tunes, sailor...
245 posted on 03/09/2005 1:43:03 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: Petronski

Before we converse, which of your personalities am I addressing?


246 posted on 03/09/2005 1:45:14 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: N3WBI3
Which part is false? That apple sells a pc for $499 or that they are selling well?

Both. It ain't a pc. It's a Mac. And, compared to equivalent PCs, they're not selling well.
247 posted on 03/09/2005 1:46:46 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: Bush2000
Oh, God. Sing us a few show tunes, sailor...

Sorry, I don't sing that well. I have managed to get a couple of shows that I wrote on my Mac produced, though. Will that do?

248 posted on 03/09/2005 1:47:28 PM PST by SlowBoat407 (Bekaa to the future!)
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To: antiRepublicrat
The nice thing about the smaller software base for the Mac is that it seems to be cut off at the bottom. Most titles available are actually quality software, while there is a huge sea of crap Windows software.

Your comments remind me of the effusive praise from Pravda back in the 80's over how the smaller selection of consumer goods for Communist citizens translated into higher quality. What the hell. It's all you have. You can't turn piss into wine.
249 posted on 03/09/2005 1:49:40 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: HAL9000
According to Apple, the installed base of Mac OS X has grown to over 14 million as of January ...

And, tell us, Hal ... how much has the installed base of Windows grown in the same period? You really don't want to know -- or to say it ... but OS X is a gnat on the elephant's ass of market share.
250 posted on 03/09/2005 1:52:07 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: SlowBoat407
I have managed to get a couple of shows that I wrote on my Mac produced, though. Will that do?

Oh, God ... (backs away slowly with ass pinned to the wall)..
251 posted on 03/09/2005 1:56:02 PM PST by Bush2000
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To: Bush2000
Linux boxes are simply more difficult and time-consuming to administer. I don't know how you can even question this premise. Anybody with half a clue knows this to be a fact.

My last Linux-oriented administrator would easily question that. They're quite easy, if you know what you're doing. Since you don't, you assume no one else does.

Of course it is. If you don't have the functionality and need it, you're going to have to endure some kind of cost to provide it.

If my specs say MS SQL Server required, then I don't even consider Macs or Linux, so there's no TCO comparison.

So is managing a network of PC clients. But you need to administer them properly from the start -- which you clearly aren't willing or able to do.

Where did you get that last part from? Even if Windows networks were as easy to manage as Mac networks, that only brings the TCO equal on that front, and if you're buying quality desktops (not the sub $1,000 trash) the client hardware cost is about the same. But don't forget you paid much more for your Windows servers. Now count in the historically lower incidence of Mac client problems and the current dearth of Mac malware, and you'll save boatloads on your Mac TCO.

Server apps typically aren't as difficult to port to different architectures as desktop apps

You're right, that can definitely be true, but not always. It would be extremely easy to port a Java app to OS X, but good luck with the .NET apps.

252 posted on 03/09/2005 1:56:36 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: Bush2000
I don't care how much ease of functionality that litle interface wheel provides -- or how much better you think the player electronics are. Apple isn't going to maintain its market share by charging those kind of prices.

Usability is very important to me, so I won't be buying any other until they get their act together.

As for pricing, Apple will maintain its high prices as long as it can, that's the capitalist way. Items are worth exactly what people will pay for them, and people are still paying the iPod prices. However, Apple has already dropped prices and increased specs many times on the iPod line, and they're still ahead. But I too wonder if Jobs won't get greedy or let is ego get in the way and eventually blow this one. We'll wait and see.

253 posted on 03/09/2005 2:01:25 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: Bush2000

I'm not here to compete or to prove anything. It is clear, though, that one area in which I cannot compete with you is in the amount of vitriol that can be spewed in a single post. What, exactly, have I said to warrant this?


254 posted on 03/09/2005 2:04:22 PM PST by SlowBoat407 (Bekaa to the future!)
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To: Bush2000
Whats youre definition of PC, is it nor personal computer?

And do you have something to base youre statement that they are not selling well compared to other pc's? What do you define as selling well? do you even know or are you just trying to get banned again

255 posted on 03/09/2005 2:04:32 PM PST by N3WBI3
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To: Bush2000
Your comments remind me of the effusive praise from Pravda back in the 80's over how the smaller selection of consumer goods for Communist citizens translated into higher quality. What the hell. It's all you have. You can't turn piss into wine.

It doesn't equate. Mac users are used to quality software, so the crap stuff dies quickly, while it lives on in the Windows world.

Funny though, I don't remember that from Pravda. Me and my friend used to listen to Radio Moscow on shortwave for laughs, and all I got was that production and harvests were always at an all-time high (at a time we were exporting wheat to the USSR), and that we should all vote for Mondale because he'll save the world (while we had a Reagan portrait on the wall).

256 posted on 03/09/2005 2:07:46 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: Petronski
Your information is wildly inaccurate.

You keep repeating that statement even though it is factually incorrect.

The iPod replacement batteries are readily available

I made no comment about availablity. Crack is also readily available.

your intimidation by the battery-changing procedure does not reflect on the intelligence or abilities of anyone else attempting it

You AppleHeads sure do like personal insults. All I said is you have to dissect the Ipod and this voids the warrant. For many users, the Ipod ends up being disposable or your $300 Ipod will cost $400 to operate over two years (maybe three). Spin all you want, Apple made an MP3 player that is twice as expensive as others and it was not designed for the user to replace the battery (very poor design of a portable device). It sure looks like - based on its design - Apple was hoping you will be buying Ipods over and over.

If you got lots of money to burn, by all means buy an Ipod. Half the storage and twice the price is a small price to pay for the little Apple logo.

257 posted on 03/09/2005 2:10:01 PM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: Melas
Wrong I've moved all of my wma files to my ipod with itunes.

Ipods do not play WMA files - either you are very confused or you are merely storing them on your Ipod or you converted them to another format (which degrades the file)

258 posted on 03/09/2005 2:21:05 PM PST by Last Visible Dog
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To: Last Visible Dog
All I said is you have to dissect the Ipod and this voids the warranty

You just don't seem to understand. If your iPod battery dies while under warranty, Apple will replace it for free under that warranty. If it dies after the warranty expires, then warranty isn't an issue, is it?

259 posted on 03/09/2005 2:26:27 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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To: Last Visible Dog
All I said is you have to dissect the Ipod and this voids the warrant

Well that's good, because I don't like WMA.

260 posted on 03/09/2005 2:28:16 PM PST by antiRepublicrat
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