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8-year-old arrested after alleged trantrum(sic)
Bakersfield Californian ^ | 3/4/05 | AP

Posted on 03/04/2005 8:50:54 AM PST by NormsRevenge

WILLIAMSBURG, Va. (AP) - Police arrested an 8-year-old boy who allegedly had a violent outburst in school, head-butting his teacher and kicking an assistant principal, when he was told he couldn't go outside to play with other students.

The 4-foot pupil was led away from Rawls Byrd Elementary School in handcuffs Tuesday and charged with disorderly conduct and assault and battery. "It's not something that happens every day," Maj. Stan Stout said of what could be the department's youngest arrest ever.

Stout said the chair-tossing, desk-turning outburst occurred after a teacher, and later the assistant principal, attempted to stop the boy from joining his classmates.

The child was later released to his parents.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; US: Virginia; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: after; alleged; arrested; discipline; education; tantrum; trantrum
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To: cynicom

teachers don't dare lay a hand on kids, believe me, I hear stories daily. They call the principle who can't do anything either. They get terrible problems if they touch a kid. So where does that leave them, what in hell are they supposed to do???


81 posted on 03/04/2005 10:15:41 AM PST by cajungirl (freeps are my peeps.)
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To: NormsRevenge

No TASER used.... ??


82 posted on 03/04/2005 10:16:43 AM PST by traumer
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To: cajungirl
caj...

I did not lay the blame anywhere. From my view as an older person, the "blame" belongs to society. That would include, everyone, parents, teachers, schools etc. In early 40s, I saw the superintendent of schools son get knocked on his butt by a teacher. One good punch. The teacher was commended, the father punished the young man and he was made to apologize to the teacher for his original infraction.

There was no pro or con in the community or school.

Totally different society.

83 posted on 03/04/2005 10:23:39 AM PST by cynicom (<p)
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To: whereasandsoforth

I would have gotten the "board of education" at school, then again when I got home.


84 posted on 03/04/2005 10:24:31 AM PST by Polyxene (For where God built a church, there the Devil would also build a chapel - Martin Luther)
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To: NormsRevenge
Visions of one of my former teachers and a ruler come to mind..

You can't hit him. It encourages violence. Cuff him and take him to jail.

85 posted on 03/04/2005 10:25:01 AM PST by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Be Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: cajungirl

The other children in that classroom are no more or less important than the other children that I had in my "treatment room".

I'm not suggesting that they should have let him run wild and endanger the other children. You get the other children out, and then you try and calm down the one throwing the fit. And I also completely understand that teachers' hands are tied in the case of classroom discipline. It just frightens me that children are being arrested. Is the next step going to be to arrest a 4 year old who hits his daycare mate over the head with a plastic hammer? They should have arrested his parents and kept him from having that (possibly traumatic for a kid) experience. I just know that there are measures we can take to help these kids, and there are things we can do that only hurt them more. I think cuffing them and parading them around town in a cop car is not beneficial for a kid with behavior issues. Our children should be nurtured and cared for and taught through discipline and love. At age 8 there is still time to have a positive influence on that child and start helping him adjust better socially (because clearly he is having some problems). It just seems like we are giving up on our kids earlier and earlier. And that makes me sad.


86 posted on 03/04/2005 10:35:00 AM PST by melbell (A Freudian slip is when you mean one thing, and say your mother)
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To: NormsRevenge

Geez, just a little "acting out".


87 posted on 03/04/2005 10:41:14 AM PST by iconoclast (Evening of July 16, 1980. T1 stage of cancer in the Republican body.)
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To: Jeff Head; Bacon Man; Hap
Head-butting your teacher . . . that's a paddlin'.


88 posted on 03/04/2005 10:48:53 AM PST by Xenalyte (Your mother sells hot dogs.)
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To: NormsRevenge

When my father was an elementary school principal, he once showed a disciplinary file the size of a phone book on a boy to the local police.

"Watch out for him," he said. "You'll be dealing with him in a few years."

The boy was eight years old at the time.

He was at least as bad, if not worse, than this boy. His home was not merely broken, but twisted, in a way I can't mention here.

That boy is now in his early twenties and doing hard time in maximum security.

There is nothing that can be done with children like that using methods acceptable to the pedagogical establishment.


89 posted on 03/04/2005 10:48:59 AM PST by Loyalist (Please visit this fine Catholic lady's blog: fiatmihi.blogspot.com)
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To: AppyPappy

I wasn't advocating violence, and don't buy that encouraging violence bit .. was simply reflecting old method from a day when a whack on the knuckles was an attention getter.

if this happened in my day, a piece of willow might have been more in order or likely.

Taking him to jail is a bit much, imo, but may be an life altering experience.


Makes ya wonder what happened to 'spare the rod, spoil the child', tho?


By replacing respect with PC tolerance, we have sealed our own fates,, and our society will continue to decay, imo

ouch.


90 posted on 03/04/2005 10:50:56 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ...... The War on Terrorism is the ultimate 'faith-based' initiative.)
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To: Polyxene
As a father of two sons, this story saddens me. This child has been failed by parents and his school.

A parent or teacher that refuses to address this type of behavior is negligent in their duties. We are all affected by the few who don't fulfill their responsibilities - most of all the child.

It appears that the parents refused to use corporal punishment and handed responsibility to the school who then did the same by calling the cops. What a sorry lot.

"Spare the rod, spoil the child." is not a joke.

91 posted on 03/04/2005 10:54:07 AM PST by DesertSapper (Only 3 kinds of people in this world - those who can count and those who can't)
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To: NormsRevenge

give the kid some ritalin for the next few years. he'll be fine.


92 posted on 03/04/2005 11:00:01 AM PST by isom35
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To: Loyalist

it sounds like an organic condition, with that one. agree there isn't much you can do,, he was probably on legal and otherwise dope his whole life too,,

there are folks like that, for sure.

the methods of catching and responding to aggressive and violent behavior by young incorrigibles or mentally challenged are not pretty,, but agreed, there are only so many options available.

society's safety, as a whole, needs to be maintained.

unfortunately, our prisons and youth authorities are already pretty full.


93 posted on 03/04/2005 11:01:11 AM PST by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ...... The War on Terrorism is the ultimate 'faith-based' initiative.)
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To: DesertSapper

Unfortunately, we are hearing more and more of these stories about out-of-control youths, as parents are abdicating their God-given duty to discipline their children and raise them to have self-control. Our daughter knew from the time she was a baby what her limits were, and very seldom crossed the line. I am happy to say that she grew up to be a lovely young woman with a strong work-ethic and plans to raise her children the same way!


94 posted on 03/04/2005 11:12:59 AM PST by Polyxene (For where God built a church, there the Devil would also build a chapel - Martin Luther)
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To: whereasandsoforth

The principal would have gotten "Bertha" (a one-inch-thick oak paddle with holes in it to make it more aerodynamically correct) down from the wall and laid into me with it.


95 posted on 03/04/2005 12:24:57 PM PST by wyattearp (The best weapon to have in a gunfight is a shotgun - preferably from ambush.)
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To: melbell

When you remove any ability of teachers to lay hands on kids, and I don't mean hitting, I mean restraining. When teachers are treated as criminals when they try to maintain order. When parents sue as they do.

Well, the police are the only recourse. BTW your sitting on that child could very easily, in any other setting or in your own, have resulted in criminal charges against you and suits against you and the school.

Of course I don't want kids being carted off to jail for crying out loud. No reasonable person wants that. But that is the logical outcome given what is happening now.
Until society trusts its teachers and schools to maintain discipline in the class room, this is going to get worse.


96 posted on 03/04/2005 1:44:00 PM PST by cajungirl (freeps are my peeps.)
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To: KC_Conspirator

In the end what all this amounts to is the police are able to target younger and younger people and it's not raising an outcry. Well i suppose it doesn't matter in the end just another example of the government getting more and more precise in it's targetinbg of the ponunds of law that now exsist. In the end why should i care?


97 posted on 03/04/2005 3:28:52 PM PST by rottweiller_inc
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To: cajungirl
"BTW your sitting on that child could very easily, in any other setting or in your own, have resulted in criminal charges against you and suits against you and the school."

I did not sit on the child. I restrained him in a sitting position. I was sitting next to him, not on top of him. And, like I said, it was a day program specifically for kids with problems, it wasn't a public school. We were trained in how to properly restrain them.

And I know you aren't saying you want kids to go to jail. I should hope that no one would. Like you said, no reasonable person would. I just wish LEOs weren't the only people in these elementary schools who are allowed to touch the children. Even in our program we were only allowed to touch the children if they were posing an immediate danger to themselves or someone else. If they hugged us we were not even allowed to hug back. We could only stand there like a statue until they let us go. And that is heartbreaking when you think that a little love and discipline is all most of them needed.

Even so, I can remember when I was in school, and it wasn't that long ago, but our teachers were allowed to discipline us and you never heard of an elementary aged child throwing chairs and kicking people. This is one reason that if we ever have children we won't be sending them to public school. It's just not safe anymore. Plus, you know, I just don't want my child to get hauled off in handcuffs because he brought safety scissors onto the premises. ;)
98 posted on 03/05/2005 5:26:55 AM PST by melbell (A Freudian slip is when you mean one thing, and say your mother)
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