Posted on 03/01/2005 12:44:39 PM PST by stainlessbanner
ALLOUEZ, Wis. - Norm Watermolen has no plans to take down the Confederate flag he flies outside his shopping center, despite angry phone calls, letters and two thefts of flags.
The American history enthusiast said the replica flag, which flies alongside 17 historically significant flags, is an important part of the country's history, regardless of its association with the Ku Klux Klan and the effort to deny civil rights to blacks.
"I just don't see what all the trouble is," said Watermolen, 78. "Just because somebody decided years ago that it represented the Ku Klux Klan, and to some people in the South and here, it still does. But it's a significant part of our history, one that should be remembered."
Rita Drewieske, of Allouez, disagrees.
"I just find it so offensive," said Drewieske, whose daughter is black. "The flag keeps being taken, so I must not be the only one offended by it."
Watermolen created a flag plaza to display his collection of 18 historically significant flags at his Heritage Village Shoppes, an historically themed retail center. Twenty others at the center represent nations whose people immigrated to Brown County in the early 20th century.
After the second theft, he had the flag reinstalled with a hydraulic lift and padlocked, so it can't be taken unless someone shimmies up the pole and snatches it.
Ken Calewarts, who talked to Watermolen and wrote him a letter, said he had to complain about the flag to show his three children to speak up about things that are important to them.
Watermolen "legally has the right to fly the flag on his own property, and I agree with that. I don't think he's promoting (racism), but I think he's misguided. If he wants to make a statement of American history, I would respect him more if he flew it in front of his own home rather than in my neighborhood," said Calewarts, who is the Allouez village attorney, but spoke as a private citizen.
David Voelker, associate professor of humanistic studies and history at the University of Wisconsin-Green Bay, said when it was created, the Confederate flag was a symbol for a new nation the Southern states created when they seceded from the United States.
"They were certainly seceding in order to protect what they saw as states' rights, so there's no question there was that political principle at stake," Voelker said. "People have used the Confederate flag as a symbol of both slavery and racism. But historically people have used it as a symbol of states' rights - a symbol of pride in the independence of particular states. A freedom from oppression by a strong central government."
But Voelker said their number one concern was still slavery.
"They wanted to protect the institution of slavery, and they felt that the election of (President) Lincoln was a potential threat to the future of slavery," he said.
Peter Kellogg, chairman of the local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, said the version of the Confederate flag typically flown now was not widely used until the 1950s and 1960s, when opposition to school desegregation peaked.
"Therefore its modern use is definitely a symbol of a fight against equal rights for black people. So it is fair to say it is a symbol of racism," Kellogg said.
But Audrey Thiry, who plans to move her salon and a gift shop into Heritage Village at the end of April, said she and her customers aren't concerned about the flag flap.
"Norm (Watermolen) is absolutely not a racist. He is a historian; he is fond of our history," she said. "My clients are thrilled that we are moving into 'the nice mall, the one with the flags.'"
You've made a great point about the black nationalism flag.
I'm offended by rap concert posters covering the streets of Atlanta, and I can't stand the stupid rap music at full blast.
And what about the idiotic kids who forgot how to put on their britches and have them hanging around their knees. They're so stupid, it makes them walk like penquins.... And they get offended by a reference to monkeys. Go figure.
I wonder if the car will still be called the General Lee?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the front plate won't be the confederate flag in this version. I do hope that Jessica Simpson's shorts are as short and shirts as tight though!
I don't think it's necessarily wrong for people to be offended by the battle flag of a revolt that tore the nation apart and cost hundreds of thousands of lives. No doubt, many of the offended Wisonsin citizens had ancestors who paid with their lives to put down that rebellion (just like I do). Regardless of the more modern associations with civil rights and Jim Crow, the fact remains that the Confederate flag is the banner of a vanquished enemy. Flying, say, Bismark's flag, the rising sun battle flag, or Saddam's Iraqi standard would be just as offensive, and, I would guess, not readily defended by many who defend flying the Confederate flag.
"Flying, say, Bismark's flag, the rising sun battle flag, or Saddam's Iraqi standard would be just as offensive, and, I would guess, not readily defended by many who defend flying the Confederate flag."
Important to note that the CSA was former states of the United States who VOTED to secede from the US, which made no specific provision allowing OR disallowing secession.
Rebellion implies an effort to overthrow washington, which simply wasn't the case. The seceding states said 'we are leaving.' Not 'we are taking over YOUR fedgov,' which is rebellion.
You need to realize the secession question wasn't just invented in 1860; it had been raised continuously in the 19th century and avoided by politicians who were able to work out arrangements to avoid it. Congress never clarified its legality to my knowledge, despite decades of having the issue raised, particularly with the status of new states being added to the union. Given the much greater prominence the states had with the identities of the citizens in how they identified themselves, I cannot imagine that it was widely believed that secession was illegal.
This seems somewhat different than the various flags of foreign powers the US has fought (and usually defeated).
"I don't think it's necessarily wrong for people to be offended by the battle flag of a revolt that tore the nation apart and cost hundreds of thousands of lives"
i would offer that blaming the south for the civil war exhibits a lack of understanding of the underlying political, economic, and social issues leading up to the 1860 crisis.
There are many good texts on this subject, the one that comes to mind off the top of my head is "ordeal by fire' by james macphearson.
More so than Massachusetts?
"Flying, say, Bismark's flag, the rising sun battle flag, or Saddam's Iraqi standard would be just as offensive, and, I would guess, not readily defended by many who defend flying the Confederate flag."
This statement isn't true and you know it. Nobody in America would give a rat's axx if someone flew the flag of the Franco-German War of 1870-71. Nobody even got offended when you misspelled Bismarck, Otto von.
All that's going on with the Confederate flag is that one favored influence group, with the backing of the media, is slandering and attacking an historic artifact. What was once the Civil Rights movement is now the civil-rights industry.
Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I have spent a great deal of time immersed in the history of the Civil War. For a time, I was even employed as a tour guide at Stonewall Jackson's house. So I do not make my comments from a position of ignorance.
I understand that the issue of secession was not new in 1860, and honorable men disagreed. But I have come to believe that the actions of the Southern states during that period amounted to rebellion. Obviously, many disagree with me. And my guess is that the two views will never be reconciled.
I continue sympathize with those in Wisconsin who are offended by someone who chooses to fly the flag of the Confederacy.
Massachusetts has its problems, but I'm impressed by how many people think Mitt Romney won't be electable in some states because he's a Mormon, and meanwhile he defeated an Irish-Catholic in the Bay State to become our governor!
Note to self ; Rember to use switches and paragraphs.
Sorry. Can't seem to format today I just give up.
This "jump on the bandwagon, I'm so offended by the
Confederate flag, PC stuff" has gotten so old and tiresome,
but sadly, it shows little sign of waning.
From the state who produced Kerry. Get back in your spiderhole.
The Dukes are back on TV! Just saw it on CMT the other night, with an episode every night now during the week, apparently.
free dixie,sw
There was no revolt by the Southern states, they wanted to peacefully leave what had become an untenable situation with the federal government in Washington.
There was however an unconstitutional invasion of the Southern states by federal troops that resulted in the loss of thousand of lives on both sides. Lincoln's War of Northern Aggression is looked at differently in the South.
...the fact remains that the Confederate flag is the banner of a vanquished enemy.
Vanquished? Yes. Enemy? Well that depends on which side of the Mason-Dixon you're standing on.
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