New Federal ID Standard Approved

Government Computer News ^ | 2/25/05 | William Jackson

[sergeantdave]

And how long will it be before bureaucrats demand all citizens carry federally approved IDs before entering federal buildings, before going to federal parks and before receiving federal benefits like SS, federal loans or college grants?

Do I need to tell the sliced salami or boiling frog story?

This is the first step to a National ID program, a fascist internal passport to be presented under penalty of law.

[Dat Mon]

Im against a national ID, no if ands or buts...as strongly as you are.

This federal ID is proposed to be used by people working with / for the government, an extension of what is in place now.

Im proposing that a similar program and card be used only for NON CITIZENS in the US.

Is that clear enough?

[LasVegasMac]

I should have included in my keywords... Art Bell Area 51 the pyramids

As one of those required to get several of these cards (retired mil, contractor w/clearance), not to mention another one coming down the pipe - for computer access, I agree with what you are saying.

I am however, fairly incensed that you left the Bermuda Triangle off of your list.

I will be watching.....ye of little tin foil!

LVM :)

[Dat Mon]

"Why would a criminal Mexican alien need three to five different sets of ID?"

Street smart politics tells us one thing about the left, and the special interest lobbies allied with them on this immigration issue...

At the same time they are proposing reform to the existing laws, they are working feverishly behind the scenes to thwart enforcement of ALL existing laws, and devising ways to work around the proposed NEW laws.

Need an example?...try Campaign Finance Reform.

[expatpat]

No need. National ID will suffice!

BTW, Area51 is an actual Freeper name here.

[Dat Mon]

Oh I grasp it...hope you do too.

Ironic is when a leftist like Michael Moore touts the terrorist killers of innocent women and children as "freedom fighters".

[sure_fine]

Hate to tell you...but lots of people already subject themselves to this and alot more...when they get high security clearances.

Its SOP for dealing with critical government stuff.

exactly, and so far I haven't heard a complaint, just the opposite really, get through of lot of places quicker

[sergeantdave]

How do you determine someone is a non-citizen without comparisons against a complete data base of all people - both citizens and non-citizens?

Illegals, non-citizens or temp workers can't be identified without all the data. For this thing to work, all US citizens will need their personal info in a data bank in order to separate citizens from those who aren't citizens.

Without a massive data base, all a non-citizen needs to do is dump his federal ID card in the garbage, go get a fake ID from Illinois making him a fake US citizen and go about his merry way. Now try to catch him.

[sure_fine]

however we feel about it.. its hardest to accept WHY we have to do this in the first place..IMO

give us your poor, your down trodden, your criminals, your diseases, your needy, your system bleeders, your scum

[Dat Mon]

You may have a point...I don't have an answer to the crosschecking against citizen database issue...right now.

Let me think on it for a bit.

However....you may have made another perhaps inadvertent point against the guest worker bill concept.

If we cannot implement this type of secure ID card for guest workers, because of verification and database corroboration issues...then how can we effectively administer the guest worker bills currently on the table?

How can a guest worker program increase immigration security if one of the basic components of immigration /guest worker security...namely a secure form of ID cannot be implemented?

Is a national ID card and massive citizen database the only way to administer the proposed guest worker bills?

[sergeantdave]

Use existing law and go after employees who hire illegals. Fine them. Off to prison if necessary. No jobs = no illegals.

Barring that, a class action suit by property owners against the federal government for inverse condemnation of their land.

[Dat Mon]

What you are saying is that if we rigorously enforce EXISTING laws, starting at the employer level...we can go a long way to address these issues, without a massive new program.

I cannot disagree with that position.

[Once-Ler]

To non citizens...the entire country should be considered fderal government property.

Would that include tourists and business visitors?

[Dat Mon]

"Would that include tourists and business visitors?"

Perhaps I could have stated this better. My point is one of access control. Think of this ID as a glorified passport.

The federal gov can regulate or restrict traffic entering or leaving its 'property', the same as you a private citizen can control access to your personal property (barring a court order of course). The feds can not make you show an ID to enter or leave your home, for example, but they can if you go onto a military installation.

All non citizens are here ultimately through an agreement with the federal government...not state local, or private business. Obviously non citizens can own property in the US, although not all countries (such as Mexico) are as open in their policy of foreign ownership.

In essence, if the feds can restrict access to the country, they have the right to also impose an ID requirement on non-citzens in the US.

Practically speaking, the ID would not necessarily be applied to anyone spending less than a certain time period here, such as the usual tourist or business person, unless they were tourists from 'special' classification countries.

[steve-b]

A standardized ID should be about the size of a paperback book. This has several operational advantages (e.g. it allows a good photo), and prevents mission creep (it's bulky enough to be taken out only for occasions where there is a legitimate need for requiring secure ID, such as voting, but would not be routinely carried and thus could not be used in ways that presume routine carry).

[Dat Mon]

Interesting point.

This is what these threads are for IMO. To hash out ideas and brainstorm the solution process.

I do believe that the collective intelligence and experience base on FR can formulate solutions efficiently and direct them to our elected reps...who need all the help they can get.