[The Spirit Of Allegiance]

"I would leave a church in a NY minute when they started condoning homosexuality."

This isn't a personal criticism--but the problem is, too many good people are fleeing the evil instead of staying and fighting it. The evildoers are rewarded with control of a half million--or multimillion--dollar properties! They can sell it off, then direct the monies from the sale into homosexual-friendly nonprofits, etc....Nice feedback loop for them if we let them get away with it....WICKED.

[Gondring]

Love your tagline.

[Miss Marple]

You are correct. To my mind, homosexuality is the McGuffin. What this is really about is control of real estate property, endowments, and art collections, which can be used to fund leftist causes.

People aren't going to leave a church because of most disagreements, but homosexuality will drive them away, especially when you ordain a practicing one as bishop.

Have you ever noticed this push for gay ordination is only going on in the churches in which the denomination as a whole owns the property. Churches like the Southern Baptisits, in which congregations own property individually, don't have nearly as much trouble with these activists.

[stm]

"This isn't a personal criticism--but the problem is, too many good people are fleeing the evil instead of staying and fighting it. "

If this were something I thought I could fight I would stay and stand my ground. But it lools as if the Episcopalian Church has steadfastly made up it's mind over this one. And permanently soilded their own nest. Were I Epicsopalian (which I am not) I would just bail and leave this insanity.

[McGavin999]

I agree with you, it's time to fight back. Just who owns the churches? If you are split off from the main church, does the church in the USA own the buildings or does the "Chruch" where it is headquartered own it. If the US us split off from the main church, can the conservative members of the US request the church acknowledge them as true members and evict those who are in rebellion?

[TomSmedley]

This isn't a personal criticism--but the problem is, too many good people are fleeing the evil instead of staying and fighting it. The evildoers are rewarded with control of a half million--or multimillion--dollar properties! They can sell it off, then direct the monies from the sale into homosexual-friendly nonprofits, etc....Nice feedback loop for them if we let them get away with it....WICKED.

The doctrine of "sunk costs" applies here. The wagon trails over the Rockies were littered with family heirloom furniture, libraries, etc. -- weighty objects that made it impossible for the yoke beasts to make progress. The pioneers kept their tools, their seed, their resolve. The failures turned back.

"Tom, you are like a man who sees a freight train heading for a cliff," a friend told me eons ago, when I wanted to be a methodist preacher. "You don't know the first thing about trains, but you do know that it's going in the wrong direction, and you are determined to jump on board and turn it around!"

The big problem is -- every year you stay with the hell-bound train, wrestling with the demented crew for control over the machinery, is another year when your tithe money funds enemy causes -- and your children sit under a compromised pulpit. You might have enough theological health to resist said pulpit -- but it's unlikely that your children do. Yes, you may in the end end up with the echoing properties -- but your children may not be with you.

Remember Lot's wife. (and daughters!)

[Huber]

This isn't a personal criticism--but the problem is, too many good people are fleeing the evil instead of staying and fighting it. The evildoers are rewarded with control of a half million--or multimillion--dollar properties! They can sell it off, then direct the monies from the sale into homosexual-friendly nonprofits, etc....Nice feedback loop for them if we let them get away with it....WICKED.

By your token, the early Christians should have been fighting to gain control of the Temple in Jerusalem. Now what would the Bible say about that?

You get to a point where you make a rational judgement that the time to protect your material losses of real estate, etc. would deprive you of building a new church to rise from the ashes of the old. Besides, despite the conventional wisdom, there is no better way to force reform than to create a viable alternative to the corrupted status quo. We are doing that in the Anglican Mission in America. www.amia.org

[Huber]

This isn't a personal criticism--but the problem is, too many good people are fleeing the evil instead of staying and fighting it. The evildoers are rewarded with control of a half million--or multimillion--dollar properties! They can sell it off, then direct the monies from the sale into homosexual-friendly nonprofits, etc....Nice feedback loop for them if we let them get away with it....WICKED.

By your token, the early Christians should have been fighting to gain control of the Temple in Jerusalem. Now what would the Bible say about that?

You get to a point where you make a rational judgement that the time to protect your material losses of real estate, etc. would deprive you of building a new church to rise from the ashes of the old. Besides, despite the conventional wisdom, there is no better way to force reform than to create a viable alternative to the corrupted status quo. We are doing that in the Anglican Mission in America. www.amia.org

[Raycpa]

too many good people are fleeing the evil instead of staying and fighting it.

Sandals, dust, shake.

[altura]

Well, I'm staying and fighting, although many on this forum seem to regard that as heresy.