Allawi announces new coalition to fight for prime minister post

I have have a good friend that was on the ground with an SOF (ODA) team just outside of Nasiriya early on in the invasion. It wasn't his team but two others that worked with Chalabi that said he was not to be trusted (and in many ways was trying to undercut our efforts immediately upon hitting the ground within Iraq).

So you're repeating hearsay from your friend who himself was not a witness to what he told you. Who told your friend this, were they in turn witnesses or relying on hearsay, what were the specific actions they allege Chalabi engaged in that "undercut our efforts", and what political faction of the military were they aligned with?

For an "on the record" account of this go read Masters of Chaos (a very good read) - Both Major John Burns as well as Major Randy Wurst

You mean New York Times correspondent John Burns? BTW rather than Randy Wurst are you sure you don't mean James Wurst of the U.N. Correspondents Association:

Journalists Exposed on the U.N. Payroll; George Soros, Ted Turner Pay for Journalism Prizes:

AIM also asked James Wurst and Tony Jenkins about financial contributions to UNCA from Ted Turner's U.N. Foundation and the Open Society Institute of George Soros. Wurst is the current UNCA president.

Wurst has written a number of pieces on Chalabi for Ted Turner's Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI)'s Global Security Newswire: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&q=+site:www.nti.org+jim+wurst+chalabi.

Both these men say Chalabi is a snake - (along with another half-dozen who are not named within the book).

More anonymous sources.

For an "on the record" account of this go read Masters of Chaos (a very good read) - Both Major John Burns as well as Major Randy Wurst You mean New York Times correspondent John Burns? BTW rather than Randy Wurst are you sure you don't mean James Wurst of the U.N. Correspondents Association: Journalists Exposed on the U.N. Payroll; George Soros, Ted Turner Pay for Journalism Prizes: AIM also asked James Wurst and Tony Jenkins about financial contributions to UNCA from Ted Turner's U.N. Foundation and the Open Society Institute of George Soros. Wurst is the current UNCA president. Wurst has written a number of pieces on Chalabi for Ted Turner's Nuclear Threat Initiative (NTI)'s Global Security Newswire: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official_s&q=+site:www.nti.org+jim+wurst+chalabi. Both these men say Chalabi is a snake - (along with another half-dozen who are not named within the book). More anonymous sources.

Fool - Both John Burns and Randy Wurst are Major's within the U.S. Military. Both with more than 20 years experience!

You don't have a clue to what you are talking about! How utterly odd for you to go out and find two other people with like names and suggest these are the same two people.

Wow is that dumb!

Again, both SOF operators Burns and Wurst are "on record" in the book Masters of Chaos explaining all this about Mr. Chalabi (and more, concerning looting at all the rest).

As for your comment about "more anonymous" sources - Yeah, there are another half dozen SOF personal who are not identified by name (for varying reasons) that also talk about Mr. Chalabi - (but of course, you know more than these guys who were on the ground with him in Iraq.).

Please. (oh wait, even if you did have their names, you'd google them and then suggest they were actually other people). That is just too funny and dumb.

Have you read Masters of Chaos? If not, why? Why aren't you informed yet you want to try and criticize others who have much more information that you.

You are foolish enough to try and turn Randy Wurst into "James Wurst" - Wow, again, is that dumb.

The same questions could be asked of you! - What political faction are you with? Both Major Burns and Wurst are full hearted supporters of the War in Iraq as well as the WOT - Both men have actually seen combat (have you?) - Both men have actually worked with Mr. Chalabi (have you?). Both men were among the first into Afghanistan after Sept 11th (were you?). - Both men were among the first into Iraq (were you?).

Wait, you could know all this by simply reading a book readily available to you - (yet you choose not to, but at the same time want to question others or act as if you have a clue to what you are talking about - When it is clear you do not!).

As for you suggesting I am repeating "hearsay" - Call it what you want - (which for the record I have never said it wasn't, in terms of what a friend of mine has said. That being the SOF that worked with Mr. Chalabi on the ground outside of Nasiriya all thought the man a snake!) - You oddly for some reason what to assume all these SOF guys are wrong and somehow your take on Mr. Chalabi is more accurate! Please.

Fact is Mr. Chalabi was arrested by US troops less than 8 months after these SOF worked with him (What, was the US military also wrong about Mr. Chalabi in arresting him? Are they all wrong and your take still correct?) -

Oh wait, Mr. Chalabi didn't give a bunch of bogus Intel to our Pentagon prior to the invasion of Iraq (oh wait, he did!).

Lastly, while me friend in theater (near Nasiriya) didn't actually work with the ODA's assigned to Mr. Chalabi - he most certainly did meet him and have various encounters with him over apprx a months time frame.

The same questions could be asked of you!

Yes, but they would immaterial, since I'm not the one making allegations based on hearsay; you are. Your own post admits this, behind the smokescreen of your insults and ad hominem diversions:

As for you suggesting I am repeating "hearsay" - Call it what you want - (which for the record I have never said it wasn't

Since you concede your allegation is hearsay, with respect to that part of your posts the case stands closed.

As for the identities of Burns and Wurst, please feel free to post some quotes or cite some specific page numbers from Masters of Chaos to substantiate your assertion that these are not the same individuals I inquired about. You will note that I did not state they were the same individuals, I merely asked you if they were, which evidently made you very defensive, since you responded with insults. I wonder why it makes you so defensive when people ask you basic questions about the sources of your information?

Yes, but they would immaterial, since I'm not the one making allegations based on hearsay

No, you have most certainly run to the defense of Mr. Chalabi and suggested those who don't see him in a favorable light are somehow bias - When it is you that is oddly bias towards him....(when in fact you have never worked with him or met him) -

Yet, those SOF who have worked with him - You immediately question their motives or even more oddly try and suggest they are entirely different people! (that is the weirdest thing I have possibly ever seen! - And funniest). -

As for you now trying to suggest you didn't try to claim Mr. Burns and Mr. Wurst weren't other people - Than what was your whole post about (with links) to two men with the same names (well, not even the same name with Mr. Wurst, just the same last name....which oddly for you was close enough) - If you weren't trying to suggest that these were the same people than why even post all that -

You knew clearly I wasn't talking about them, because I was talking about about the SOF "on the record" within the detailed and documented book Masters of Chaos -

You then most certainly did take those two names I listed (after you asked for names) and oddly suggested could I possible mean these two other people - (again, wow, is that nuts!).

As for repeating hearsay, I said from the beginning with regard to a family friend that is part of the US SOF community what his take was on Mr. Chalabi - There is absolutely nothing wrong with that -

And let me add further the weight of US Special Operations officer holds a lot of water (IMO - and to many others) - Especially one that has worked in Iraq and Afghanistan -

For you to immediately question this gentleman's word....and or his motives behind them - And do so, while trying to defend Mr. Chalabi (a man that was arrested by US Forces) - It makes me really start to question your judgment and "motives" -

Not that you oddly and weirdly trying to suggest two other people were actually Major Burns and Major Wurst didn't already do that for me!

What case is closed is you clearly don't have a clue what you are talking about when it comes to US SOF in Iraq nor what those who worked with Mr. Chalabi on the ground think of him -

A little realism about al-Jaafari and sharia.

Al-Jaafari and his party cannot turn Iraq into an Islamic state, even if they want to, if they play by the rules. His base of support is not just his own party, but the whole Shiite coalition, most of which is opposed to anything that even smells like Iran. Plus the Shiites don't have a majority anyway, plus there is the three-province veto provision. In addition, the Kurdish parties and others are going to be smelling the new Constitution very closely for even any potential opportunities for openings towards Islamism.

Now the US is going to be in Iraq in force through the whole Constitution writing process at the very least, that is, through the next election, so there will be no opportunity for coup d'etat, which would be the only way of achieving an Islamic state. Al-Jaafari will have to play by the rules.

Our people are probably encouraging Allawi, but I hope they aren't heavy-handed about it. If it doesn't look too much like a US-manipulated ploy, Allawi's getting in on the act will be a good thing, because with real opposition, al-Jaafari will have to make promises and accept conditions that will paint him into a tighter corner than he's already in. It's a game called politics, and everything that gets Iraqis playing it is to our advantage.

Nope, I haven't defended Chalabi, I've only asked you to provide a witness and details to substantiate your frequently-repeated allegation against him, which you've failed to do on two threads now after posting your allegation on numerous threads. To correct an error in your post, you claim, "I said from the beginning with regard to a family friend that is part of the US SOF community what his take was on Mr. Chalabi". As a matter of fact, when we first started discussing this in a previous thread, you initially provided no information at all as to the identity of your source or the details of their allegation. When I questioned you on this after you made some rude comments to piasa due to your apparent inability to understand sarcasm, you sent private messages to me and others citing alleged reasons why you could not post the source of your information. Since then you have switched tactics and provided a vague description of your alleged source with no supporting details to substantiate your claim. Meanwhile to distract from the fact that you have been spreading hearsay without providing any facts to back it up, you attack anyone who requests supporting details from you by namecalling, insinuating that they are insulting the honesty and honor of Special Forces troops, etc. In point of fact, contrary to your insinuation that what is at stake here is the honesty of Special Forces troops, you have not named any actual source in Special Forces: you just keep making vague references to vague statements that you allege some Special Forces people have said about Chalabi being a "snake" (whatever that means in concrete terms--I keep asking you to provide details and you repeatedly avoid doing so). It is you who smear Special Forces by invoking them as a smokescreen to hide behind when you cannot substantiate your rumors. Why should anyone here believe you when you cite an anonymous source making vague allegations about a controversial topic and then rudely attack anyone who requests corroboration of your story?

When you come up with some actual quotes or page references from Masters of Chaos to document your statements on Burns and Wurst, let me know. Meanwhile I will be reviewing the book myself to try to identify what you're referring to there--I see Chapter 12 covers Nasiriya. BTW, why do you think citing a book on the history of SF that only includes about 100 pages on Iraq makes you more "informed" on Chalabi than others? The "looting" allegations you allude to were discussed on FR long before you came along with your outdated information and unsubstantiated hearsay.

The final bottom line is you don't have a clue to what you are talking about - Your posts make that obvious.

And you most certainly are trying to support Mr. Chalabi and act as if any allegations against him (including are OWN US TROOPS arresting him!) are based on false allegations.

Again, I will say, that our troops on the ground know more about Mr. Chalabi than you do! Period.

I will further go on to say, as I have from the start - A good family friend of ours is part of the SOF community. Has been for the past 18 years. He was in Nasiriya at the same time Mr. Chalabi was (while his mission was not with the ODA's who were responsible for Mr. Chalabi - he most certainly did talk with those soliders within those 2 ODA's and I have passed along his comments).

Again, his word compared to yours is worth 100 fold the weight!

Mr. Chalabi has been proven to be a liar and a self-promoter since minute one. He gave all sorts of false information to the Pentagon prior to our invasion. No one can deny this - His information was flat out wrong.

On the ground in Nasiriya Mr. Chalabi was more concerned with his priorities than that of the American forces protecting him (this is detalied in Masters of Chaos).

Your continued assertion that more evidence needs to be brought up against Mr. Chalabi is foolishness - He gave Americans false information prior to the invasion - He put his concerns over the objectives of the American SOF protecting him (and his men) - He was arrested by US FORCES!! for giving information away to Iran and holding materials that he was not suppose to have (US materials) -

But you go ahead - keep insisting that everyone else is wrong about Mr. Chalabi and that everyone who says he is a dirt-bag (who has worked with him) they are all simple wrong and have some type of weird political reason for saying such.

Or better yet, why don't you go goolge some more names of SOF guys and suggest they are really other people and not US Soldiers. (that is just too funny and nuts!).

I have also wasted enough of my time with you regarding this subject. The facts are the facts about Mr. Chalabi -

I work in the security business and know I can trust the word of the man who has told me about Mr. Chalabi. Trust him with my life as a matter of fact.

Just as the Democrats, MSM and most of Europe were on the wrong side of history with regard to the war in Iraq - You are on the wrong side of history when it comes to Mr. Chalabi.

Period.

I'm out.

Again, I will say, that our troops on the ground know more about Mr. Chalabi than you do!

I would love to hear what our troops on the ground have to say about Chalabi. But I cannot follow up the information in your posts by checking about it with our troops, because you have not named any witnesses among our troops to support your statements, nor described any details about exactly what you allege some of our troops say Chalabi did. You have cited an anonymous source who you say got some information from some of our troops. So the bottom line is we only have your word to go on that any of our troops actually said what you claim. Since by your own admission you are not a witness to what you are claiming, and since you describe your source as not being a witness, either, and since you have provided us no details as to where your alleged source is getting their information from or even what that information is--you have said they heard "Chalabi is a snake", which is about as legally precise as charging him with being a mongoose or an eagle or a unicorn--what you say has no evidentiary value in a public forum. Here on FR we expect people to give a reference to support their statements. Vague anecdotes citing anonymous sources don't cut it here--this isn't The New York Times.

You have cited an anonymous source who you say got some information from some of our troops. So the bottom line is we only have your word to go on that any of our troops actually said what you claim. Since by your own admission you are not a witness to what you are claiming, and since you describe your source as not being a witness, either, and since you have provided us no details as to where your alleged source is getting their information from

This is the last one - But you really need to read! - I have never said my source (A family friend in the SOF community for 18 years) was not a witness to Mr. Chalabi - I said he wasn't one of the two ODA's assigned to Mr. Chalabi!! - But he did most certainly deal with Mr. Chalabi for apprx a month!! - He also spoke directly with the two ODA's that worked with Mr. Chalabi (which brings the total count to over 24 + Soldiers!) - What can't you comprehend about that!

Lastly, why do you keep saying "anonymous" sources - When I have clearly given TWO NAMES - Majors Wurst and Burns - These are TWO NAMES .....Now, I understand you tried to weirdly suggest these were actually two other people earlier above on this thread.....but they were not. They are TWO REAL PEOPLE ON THE RECORD (and current members of the US SOF) -

Now, before you start trying to tell others about what goes on at FR - First thing you need to understand is people actually READ on FR -

Again, you have now been proven a fool apprx a half dozen times - You are on the wrong side of history when it comes to Mr. Chalabi - (face it).

For the last time - There are dozens of SOF on the record citing Mr. Chalabi as not being trust worthy! - U.S. forces arrested Mr. Chalabi for giving info to Iran (and for having confidential information on him that he was not suppose to have).

These are not anonymous sources - What don't you understand about that - Was the US Military wrong to seize Mr. Chalabi? - Where they wrong to take away from him confidential US information that he was not suppose to have? - Were we wrong to vet him with false information only to see that information end up in Iran? -

Give me a break with your need for more sources. Do us all a favor go google some more names and then weirdly suggest they are really other people. I just have to say again, wow was that dumb!

This is the last one

Oh, good: then we won't have to hear any more from you.

When you can give a name for your friend's source, let us know and I'll stop calling it an anonymous source. Whether your friend worked with Chalabi at some point is irrevelant, because you yourself stated in Post 20, "It wasn't his team but two others that worked with Chalabi that said he was not to be trusted", so by your own account your friend was not a witness to what you are claiming he heard from others and transmitted to you. Citing Burns and Wurst as sources for your hearsay is fallacious: Burns and Wurst are sources for what Burns and Wurst state, not for what you state your friend told you. I asked you questions about Burns and Wurst--which you misconvey as statements, apparently because you are so desperate for a counterargument to distract from the exposure of your posts as hearsay--because unlike you I check the background of sources making controversial statements, and I am aware that there was a journalist named John Burns covering US military activity in Iraq during the time frame you mention who opposed Chalabi's contact with the New York Times, which you would know if you were as informed as you claim to be. Your misinformation on Chalabi and Iran is outdated, as you would also know if you were as informed as you claim to be. For someone who claims to work in security, you sure blab a lot about what you pretend is privately-shared information--I guess your security training doesn't include learning the basic concept of "need to know". Finally, no one who makes as many spelling and grammatical errors as you do and types something as silly as "weirdly suggest" every other sentence should call anyone else dumb.

For someone who claims to work in security, you sure blab a lot about what you pretend is privately-shared information--I guess your security training doesn't include learning the basic concept of "need to know".

Ahh - now the child is finally starting to "get it" - as to why nothing more than "snake" or "untrustworthy" and the lack of specific names within the exact Team of my friend has been given out by me -

Yet it was you who was foolishly asking for "more details" to what exactly was said about Mr. Chalabi on an open forum.

It was you who foolishly suggested calling someone a "snake" wasn't descriptive enough (and who knows what could have been meant by that) -

You are learning child but you are still completely on the wrong side of history when it comes to Mr. Chalabi.

Again, Mr. Chalabi gave purposely vetted info to Iran (the info was false but was vetted through Mr. Chalabi to see where it would end up) - But no, you are righ, the US Military is wrong, those SOF who worked with Mr. Chalabi are wrong.....And you are correct.

Come on, go google some more names for us - That is just so funny and dumb I have to see you do it again. Can't you google Mr. Chalabi's name and try and convince us you have really been talking about a whole different Chalabi this whole time.

Yet it was you who was foolishly asking for "more details" to what exactly was said about Mr. Chalabi on an open forum.

Huh. I'd better clean my glasses: I could swear the posts and private messages I've been reading volunteering total strangers "inside information" about Chalabi and other subjects--such as the alleged whereabouts of Osama bin Laden--were from "DevSix", not "Fedora". But I suppose it is rather foolish of me to expect you to provide evidence to support your statements. I guess from now on I'll just follow your example of security procedure and go on public forums and repeat whatever rumors come my way as long as I don't give enough evidence that anyone else can verify what I'm saying isn't misinformation. Hey, did you know that Bush and Putin are having a secret meeting in Geneva tomorrow at 12:37 PM GMT? I have a friend from the Secret Service who told me he heard that while he was on a secret mission with James Bond. What--you want to know how I know that? How dare you question the patriotism of the good men in the Secret Service!!! That is the dumbest thing I have ever read on FR--and the funniest! How oddly weird of you! What, you use Google?--you fool! Gibablast is much better! You have proven yourself a fool at least 7.3 times now. And did I mention that was the dumbest, oddly weirdest thing I have ever read on FR?--or anywhere else in the entire known universe?!!! And now if you'll excuse me, I'm out of here because I have to go on another thread to post the GPS coordinates of Osama's safe house, which I got from my third cousin twice removed who works at NSA.

BTW I thought it was your last post two posts ago? I guess you learned to count from the same place you learned grammar, logic, and security procedure.

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