Posted on 02/21/2005 7:04:50 AM PST by Alex Marko
The fabled marshes of Mesopotamia, largely destroyed by Saddam Hussein in one of the worst pieces of ecological vandalism in recent history, can be partially restored, scientists said on Sunday.
The first scientific assessment of the marshes in southern Iraq, al considered by some to have been the Biblical location of the Garden of Eden, was presented to the American Association for the Advancement of Science meeting in Washington.
Saddam's drainage programme - accompanied by the persecution and forced relocation of the Marsh Arabs who had lived there for 5,000 years - reduced the wetlands to 7 per cent of their original 20,000 sq km area. But some of the former marshland is already recovering, following the actions of local people who broke down Saddam's dikes and dams after his regime fell in 2003.
The study by US, Canadian and Iraqi scientists showed a surprising rapid return of plants and wildlife to the areas that have been reflooded by the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. "The quality of the river water turns out to be much higher than many people had expected," said Curtis Richardson of Duke University in North Carolina, the study leader.
"Immediately after [the overthrow of Saddam] we saw just a dozen birds in the marshes," Prof Richardson said. "A year later, there were hundreds and now they are talking about many thousands."
The marshes were once an important resting point for waterfowl migrating between Siberia and Africa. The local otter species, which survived in the small area of the marshes along the Iranian border that were not drained, is also making a come-back.
Barry Warner, a botanist at the University of Waterloo in Canada, said: "There are encouraging signs that a vibrant and healthy plant community will re-establish itself in the newly wetted areas."
Because the marshes were drained only recently - mainly during the 1990s as Saddam took revenge on the Shia Marsh Arabs for their failed insurrection after the first Gulf War - many desiccated areas retain a large and viable seedbed.
But the scientists said a sustained international effort would be needed to support Iraqis' efforts to turn the current ad-hoc flooding into a sustainable long-term revival. Peter Reiss, director of the US Agency for International Development's marshland restoration project, said: "Within Iraq the destruction of the marshes has become a symbol of the oppression by Saddam's regime."
Most Iraqis support restoration, but there is no consensus about how much of the marshes to restore permanently given the competing demands for scarce water. Prof Richardson said 30 per cent would be a reasonable target.
Plans by Turkey and Iran to take more water from the Tigris and Euphrates rivers also pose a long-term threat to marshland restoration.
Even the Marsh Arabs have somewhat ambivalent attitudes about restoration of the wetlands. Their population, estimated at 350,000 in 1950, is now little more than 100,000, none of whom are living in their original homes, Mr Reiss said. Their traditional way of life, documented by Wilfred Thesiger, Gavin Maxwell and other authors, was based on fishing, water buffalo herding and reed cutting. This is virtually extinct today and most of the remaining Marsh Arabs are impoverished sedentary farmers. But according to Mr Reiss, many of them feel it will be impossible to recreate their way of life and would prefer outside investment in conventional agriculture.
> you worship there so diligently
Wow. Just... wow.
It's called "projection." Look into it.
Here's a hint: one does not need to worship somethign to know that it works.
> As someone earlier noted, archaeological confirmation continues to be discovered much to the dismay of the academic elite.
Check back in when some *relevant* archeaological discoveries are made. Discoveries that prove more than the mundane.
> You really need to stop removing God from the equation.
Can't remove from an equation something that was never in it.
If I'm wrong and you're right, I lose absolutely nothing.
If you're wrong, and I'm right, you lose everything.........for all of eternity.
Don't just seek empirical evidence orion. Seek the truth.
> If you're wrong, and I'm right, you lose everything.........for all of eternity.
You assume way too much with that.
> Don't just seek empirical evidence orion. Seek the truth.
One and the same.
It's not a position I would want to be in.
If you truly believe that there is no truth beyond what can be seen, tasted or touched, you live in a tiny little world, and are missing the vast and glorious reality that lies beyond it.
A fact which is for you, both sad and dangerous.
some things you just dont exploit for the sake of profits. And the garden of eden is one of them.
I wouldn't mind taking a trip to the Garden of Eden, just to say I'd been to heaven on earth. (If it ever becomes safe to travel there.)
It's extreme arrogance on your part to assume there is only two choices.
The other possibilities are you pick the wrong God(s).
Suppose Mithra is the real God and he's really pissed at you Christians for copying much of his Religion then it's you who are really screwed. Or Zeus, Durga, Allah, etc. are the real God(s) then you wasted your life and lose everything.....for eternity.
My confidence is in the Creator of the universe who spoke to us through Scripture......in God alone, and His revelation to us of His love, and provision of redemption for our sins (from the day of Adam), through His Son, Jesus.
Christianity is unique to any other religion or philosophy, before or since, despite any similarities we might see, because of the person of Jesus Christ, who became man, but was the exact representation of God's being, one with the Father, and who allowed Himself to be sacrificed to pay the penalty for our sin, but conquered death through His bodily resurrection, and physical ascension into heaven.
All other religions are human attempts to reach God. Only through Christ, did God reach down to US, and offer Himself for our salvation.
It is not arrogance for me to say these things. It is the knowledge that I am completely unworthy of His love, a sinner saved by the grace of God, and unashamed of what He, in His mercy, has done for me.
> If I'm right
A mighty big "if." And if the Muslims are right? And what if God is a reasonable guy, who is more pleased with those who use the minds he gave them to examine the *real* world?
> having mocked Him during your lifetime.
I've never mocked God. I have, however, mocked a number of the members of his fan club.
> you live in a tiny little world
And this is why I mock God's more annoying fanboys: locked in their *own* little imaginary worlds, they see themselves as havign greater insight, while doing little more than commenting on shadows on cave walls.
And I disagree that it is only Christians you mock. When we repeat what God has said in His word, and you ridicule us for it, you are ridiculing Him.
Try reading the word of God with an open mind (if you can pry it open just a bit). If you are open to His teaching through His Holy Spirit, and pray for truth.....GOD's truth, REAL truth..........you will find it. I'm not naive enough to think that anything I say will change your mind, but God can reveal His truth to you if you really desire to know what it is.
Many a skeptic like you has found his way out of the shadows and darkness while seeking to disprove God. I pray that you become one of them.
> Christianity is unique to any other religion or philosophy, before or since, despite any similarities we might see, because of the person of Jesus Christ, who became man, but was the exact representation of God's being, one with the Father, and who allowed Himself to be sacrificed to pay the penalty for our sin, but conquered death through His bodily resurrection, and physical ascension into heaven.
Now, let's re-word that:
Mithraism is unique to any other religion or philosophy, before or since, despite any similarities we might see, because of the person of Mithras, who became man, but was the exact representation of Ahura Mazda's being, one with the Father, and who allowed Himself to be sacrificed to pay the penalty for our sin, but conquered death through His bodily resurrection, and physical ascension into heaven.
Christianity isn't as unique as many think. There were quite a number of other Messiah candidates at the time, reported to all have done more or less the same things for more or less the same reasons. Christianity is just the one that won.
> Try reading the word of God with an open mind (if you can pry it open just a bit).
And you think lame insults are going to help your position? That's mighty white and Christian of you.
> Many a skeptic like you has found his way out of the shadows and darkness while seeking to disprove God.
And many a Christian like you has found his way out of the shadows and darkness while reading the Bible.
"The world needs more Atheists and nothing will make you an Atheist faster than reading the damn Bible." - Penn and Teller
Maybe Christianity is the One True Faith, and the Bible truly is the Inerrant Word Of God. If it is, though, there is a lot of explanining needing to be done, and God's fanboys have been doing fantastic work at driving people *away* from the faith. The determination to make people believe the patently absurd as a tenet of that faith leads many people, such as myself, to simply abandon the whole thing.
Jesus is the only one who is alive today.
I'll let Him do that Himself. Just read His word with an open mind and heart.
> Jesus is the only one who is alive today.
Well, when I lived in California a Jesus Roderiguez would occaisionally mow my lawn. I assume he's probably still alive.
As for Jesus of Nazareth, supposedly born about 2009 years ago... the likelihood of him still being alive is remarkably low, about the same as for Mithras. There is no evidence of this continued life except for people's faith. And *your* faith in something does not help me prove things one way or the other, whether it's faith in Jesus, God, Atlantis or Bigfoot.
You're speaking to a stump. His worship of science/self has blinded him...What was that about using the "foolish things to shame the wise"? It's time to "shake the dust from your feet".
What I find curious is the extreme amount of distaste for Christians to be found here at the forum that is supposed to represent the party that is nothing but the Christian rednecks from "Jesusland". I'm really not sure what to make of it.
> The only one who can draw you to Himself is God.
That may well be. However, the most effective force for drawing peopel *away* from God is... other Christians. Not Islam, not TV, not popular culture... it's ill-tempered, prideful and snooty yet ignorant loud-mouths demanding that unless you believe in something clearly allegorical as literal fact, then you aren't a Real Christian.
I'd most likely be a Christian today were it not for Christians in my youth.
Take pride in the knowledge that *you* are upholding the proud tradition of driving people away from your God.
> His worship of science/self ....
... is non-existant. Really, you people need to come up with a new lie. It must be getting stale even to you.
> What I find curious is the extreme amount of distaste for Christians to be found here ...
It's because there are some extremely distasteful Christians here.
the chance is the same for the spot he came to rest on as for any spot he didn't. The location of Eden has to do with the 4 rivers which were associated with it. Their location is still of record today. Check it out...
Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. Gen 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
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