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Immigration Reform Debate Heats Up
Foxnews.com ^ | Thursday, February 17, 2005 | Matt Hayes

Posted on 02/17/2005 11:53:09 AM PST by VU4G10

Some key players in White House immigration policy have seen career setbacks in recent weeks.

Undersecretary Asa Hutchinson (search) resigned altogether from the Department of Homeland Security shortly after the president did not select him to replace nominee Bernard Kerik (search).

Rep. Chris Cannon (search), who in only mid-January was telling the press that he would do everything in his power to see his guest worker program passed, had resigned from the House Immigration Subcommittee by the end of the month.

Some observers have wondered if these resignations are mere coincidence or if they are signs that the White House is repositioning itself for its version of immigration reform, the primary feature of which is a massive guest worker program (search) (read “amnesty”).

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 109th; aliens; hr418; illegal; immigrantlist; immigration; immigrationreform; national; security; sensenbrenner
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1 posted on 02/17/2005 11:53:17 AM PST by VU4G10
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To: VU4G10

Here's something that just struck me today. With all this talk about a guest worker program the MSM and public seem to be missing the fact that we already have one and it uses specific work visas tied to employers.

Why wouldn't the same sort of rules apply to this apparent new class of guest workers?

Why is a whole new system being created?


2 posted on 02/17/2005 12:00:08 PM PST by Bikers4Bush (Flood waters rising, heading for more conservative ground. Vote for true conservatives!)
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To: Bikers4Bush
A whole new system is not being created.

Bush has stated that guest worker program is broken and needs to be fixed.

The H2A and H2B visas were created in 1952. No doubt they worked well in the beginning but the regs are now booklength. No one can navigate them, not even Tyson. Compare this to the tech worker visa with regs that are one page long.

3 posted on 02/17/2005 2:51:47 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: VU4G10; All

New poll is up!

Do you believe securing U.S. borders should be the first priority of homeland security?
Yes 96% 1895 votes
No 4% 89 votes
Total: 1984 votes

http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/lou.dobbs.tonight/


4 posted on 02/17/2005 4:09:28 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 4.1O dana super trac pak; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ...

ping


5 posted on 02/17/2005 4:22:17 PM PST by gubamyster
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To: JustAnotherSavage

I see your back!


6 posted on 02/17/2005 4:40:29 PM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: Ben Ficklin
You said.."Compare this to the tech worker visa with regs that are one page long."

A tech lobbyist explained to me once how the current H1b laws have a big loophole in how the so called "prevailing rate" is calculated.

Basically, it amounts to being whatever the hiring company says it is. The result is that you have highly skilled guest workers in the tech sector who are payed far below prevailing rates.

Now...if all guest labor classifications are covered by this one worker bill, which is the intention, then you will have the same loophole for all labor classifications.

I'm telling you guys...when the blue collar jobs start going to guest workers at half the going rate...there's going to be a howl.

You are going to end up with MORE unionization...not less.

Law of unintended consequences, and all that.
7 posted on 02/17/2005 4:51:17 PM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: Dat Mon
Now...if all guest labor classifications are covered by this one worker bill, which is the intention, then you will have the same loophole for all labor classifications

The guest worker program as proposed not only does that, but contains no limits as the existing programs (H1, H2, etc) do. This is a radical departure from anything prior to it, and essentially opens every job in the United States to every person on the planet.

In other words, it deconstructs the United States from a "nation", to little more than a job shop, with no identifiable common thread to its populace other than they occupy vertical airspace in some proximity to each other.

How long such a commercial state will continue like that is debatable. The feedback mechanism known as the vote would take awhile, but the backlash would occur. And then, yes, you might get hyper-unionism catenated with populist collectivism. Whatever happens, it wouldn't be stable politically, and it would not resemble anything like the Republic as originally envisioned.

The Bush "guest worker" program is not just an amnesty, not just a temporary worker program, and not just a re-do of the visa program. It is a radical redefinition of the United States, one which will obliterate the national character - what's left of it now - and turn the country into something strange and unrecognizable: a land of strangers, unconnected to each other, prevented from being at each other's throats by nothing more than massive police power. A corporate police state, not much more.

8 posted on 02/17/2005 5:12:27 PM PST by Regulator
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To: Dat Mon

"I see your back! "

You do???? Does it look as good as I think it does??

LOL!!

I've enjoyed your posts lately. Good thoughts.


9 posted on 02/17/2005 5:21:07 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: Dat Mon
AgJobs is a narrow immigration reform bill, it deals only with the H2A visa. It is also the reform bill that has had the most support. For these reasons, I am convinced that it will be the template for any broad immigration reform bill that might emerge in Congress

If you were to take the time to read thru that bill you will be astounded as to what is in there. We don't need that, we need the Bush Plan. There is also mucho info on AgJobs at the United Farm Workers website.

10 posted on 02/17/2005 5:23:54 PM PST by Ben Ficklin
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Howdy!


11 posted on 02/17/2005 5:26:04 PM PST by wardaddy (I don't think Muslims are good for America....just a gut instinct thing.)
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To: Regulator

It's inconceivable to most Americans that an American president, a man from a lineage of purported proud patriots, could even consider a scheme to turn America into a third world cesspool. Maybe he might start considering what the history books will say about him. It might not be pretty.


12 posted on 02/17/2005 5:26:13 PM PST by janetgreen
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To: VU4G10

Can I apply for the job, I'll be happy to sent them ALL home to their nations or origin.


13 posted on 02/17/2005 5:31:03 PM PST by television is just wrong (Our sympathies are misguided with illegal aliens...)
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To: wardaddy

This just in:
Jim Robinson

Jim Robinson is a class act, and he proves it once again. Sean Hannity is a class act. He is generous in the extreme, he commits an enormous amount of time and money to support our armed forces (where too many others just give lip service), he was crucial in his support of the president's re-election, and he is selfless in other pursuits completely unknown to most people -- including supporting his fellow conservative talk show hosts in their efforts to battle the mainstream media. I am amazed at the attacks on his intelligence, which have festered here for months and months and represent the kind of cheap character assassination practiced by the Left. I know Sean well, and he is incredibly sharp and intelligent. And he has a unique ability to connect with the vast majority of his audience. There are certain individuals on this website -- some of whom are no doubt liberals pretending to be conservatives, and some of whom are no doubt simply nasty -- who seem to get a perverse satisfaction in attacking conservatives who are on the frontline of our battle -- not just Sean, but Rush and others. Frankly, I don't blame Sean for leaving. Nobody wants to be abused like this. Especially someone who has been for FreeRepublic early on. There's a lesson in all of this -- keep the focus on our adversaries, and let's stop chewing up our own. And I speak as a proud Freeper of long-standing.

337 posted on 02/17/2005 5:28:12 PM PST by holdonnow
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1345465/posts?q=1&&page=334#334


14 posted on 02/17/2005 5:34:07 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

we need to update the FReeperlore archives before it's too late.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a1fed9e6421.htm


15 posted on 02/17/2005 5:35:47 PM PST by wardaddy (I don't think Muslims are good for America....just a gut instinct thing.)
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To: Dat Mon
English as a second language?
16 posted on 02/17/2005 5:39:48 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad

As usual, no sense of humor.


17 posted on 02/17/2005 5:42:44 PM PST by JustAnotherSavage ("We are all sinners. But jerks revel in their sins." PJ O'Rourke)
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To: JustAnotherSavage

Doing those pulldowns and cable rows..eh?


18 posted on 02/17/2005 5:44:09 PM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: Cultural Jihad

English as a second language?

Comedy as a second career?


19 posted on 02/17/2005 5:45:15 PM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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To: Regulator

Good post mon.

You nailed it on the job shops..lots of job shops...one for each specialty labor classification and occupation.

Some people will be making a killing, count on it.

And heres the BEST part. A minority owned job shop with a pipeline to a third world country will get preferential placement as an 8A setaside on all federal and state projects which utilize lots of labor. We have seen it all...already in the high tech field.


20 posted on 02/17/2005 5:52:36 PM PST by Dat Mon (will work for clever tagline)
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