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The Great American Job Sellout
google groups ^ | feb 2005 | Paul Craig Roberts

Posted on 02/15/2005 6:44:11 AM PST by dennisw

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To: Protagoras
Capitalism and freedom aren't necessarily pretty. They just work better than government interference.

Yes, which rules out protection, socialism, communism, and the rest of the government programs. But it is nearly impossible to find a business or firm that does not have to cowtow to some government regs just to do business here. But the less government the better is always a good rule.

41 posted on 02/15/2005 7:42:39 AM PST by KC_for_Freedom (Sailing the highways of America, and loving it.)
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To: dfwgator

Agreed. Or in requiring a college degree for filling the entry-level counter job at Hertz when all they really need is well-spoken customer-oriented people who can read, write, do arithmetic and file papers.


42 posted on 02/15/2005 7:43:10 AM PST by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: Protagoras
"Capitalism and freedom aren't necessarily pretty."

No doubt, the Free Market can be a ruthless bitch but she does so on the basis of culling the weak and rewarding the strong, thus making things better in the long run.

However, Keynesian economic principles are the mirror imagine of the Free Market. That is why Socialism always in the end fails miserably.

43 posted on 02/15/2005 7:43:39 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
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To: dennisw
As India and China rise to first world status, the US falls to third world status where the only jobs are in domestic services.

America's future in a nutshell.

44 posted on 02/15/2005 7:44:26 AM PST by Penner
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To: grey_whiskers

We're in Alabama. I'm overqualified and always will be so I don't have a problem with that. We over very competitive pay for this area, and starting pay would depend on the job and qualifications. Doubt you'd leave AZ for AL.


45 posted on 02/15/2005 7:44:47 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Reading is fundamental. Comprehension is optional.)
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To: Protagoras

Protagoras
You say unemployment is low. O.k. I sell employee benefits(health insurance etc). In the last 25 years I have never seen so many people that have to work 2-3 jobs because their wages are so low.
I used to see it in the low skilled blue collar jobs but have started to see it in white collar jobs as well.. Something needs o be done about the rampant wage lowering that is going on in this country throug illegal immigration and outsourcing and HB-1 visas.


46 posted on 02/15/2005 7:45:58 AM PST by superiorslots
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To: grey_whiskers

No outsourcing in my field. It is telecom/data equipment sales and service. The Telecom/Data Service providers. Bell and their competitors are outsourcing a lot. But not the equipment side since we need feet on the ground.


47 posted on 02/15/2005 7:47:17 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Reading is fundamental. Comprehension is optional.)
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To: cinives

We're in Alabama. The job descriptions are further in the thread.


48 posted on 02/15/2005 7:48:23 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Reading is fundamental. Comprehension is optional.)
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To: dennisw
"It's about jobs and paychecks for Americans."

Yup and the current employment numbers point to the fact that right now in America the employment situtation is much better than average by nearly 3/4 of a percent. Or about 12% higer than the average employment figure for the last 40 years.

So what do you keep bitching about?

49 posted on 02/15/2005 7:48:37 AM PST by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
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To: Protagoras

Capitalism and freedom aren't necessarily pretty. They just work better than government interference.
=======
And all too many forget that it IS NOT THE FUNCTION OF GOVERNMENT TO CREATE JOBS. Their job is to provide a decent economy that supports itself, THUS A GOOD ENVIRONMENT TO STIMULATE hiring by the companies THAT PRODUCE THE JOBS. The economy is GOOD! But it is up to companies (the evil corporations) to hire people, when they NEED TO HIRE PEOPLE. Jobs are not a constitutional right, as the left would have you believe.

I also DO NOT AGREE with Washington's attitude toward copping-out on the illegal immigration issue under the ruse that it is good for cheap labor. There is NO EXCUSE for not insisting and enforcing the proper immigration process for people who want to come here to work and live. Here I do agree that these ILLEGALS are taking low-end jobs that MANY AMERICANS WOULD TAKE if given the opportunity. This phrase the government throws about "JOBS AMERICANS DON'T WANT" is a bunch of bull-trash that informed people are not buying.



50 posted on 02/15/2005 7:48:46 AM PST by EagleUSA
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To: NeilGus
I guess that explains why we have 5.2% unemployment. 

Bobbing on waves of Gubbermint (state and federal) debt and external debt (cumulative trade deficits). Not to mention consumer debt and unfunded liabilities. Same as Barry Bonds beefing up on steroids when his body was running down on him.

 

51 posted on 02/15/2005 7:50:06 AM PST by dennisw (Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”)
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To: dennisw

Great article. Now all the self-appointed bush-bot economists will descend on the thread and flame this guy...


52 posted on 02/15/2005 7:50:22 AM PST by Indie (Ignorance of the truth is no excuse for stupidity.)
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To: dennisw
It ain't all about you and your "situation".

It's not even a little bit about my situation. And I never said it was. In fact, I never addressed my personal situation except to answer the childish questions by posters like you.

It's about jobs and paychecks for Americans.

No it's not. It's about the freemarket and the problems that occur for our citizens when the government screws things up.

You should not lean on anecdotal evidence so much, even worse when it's your very own anecdotal "situation"

That never happened. I was talking about fundamental economics, you folks kept making it personal.

YOU were talking about when MY kids can't find a job or I can't find a job and I have to take a pay cut. All that BS.

Let me ask you this, if you have a job, and I come by and offer to do it at half your pay, is that a problem?

53 posted on 02/15/2005 7:51:49 AM PST by Protagoras (Un-apprehended criminals have no credibility when advocating for the WOD)
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To: dennisw
Americans' employment opportunities are declining as a result of corporate outsourcing of US jobs, H-1B visas that import foreigners to displace Americans in their own country, and federal guest worker programs

In many cases the root cause can be assigned to unreasonable union demands.

54 posted on 02/15/2005 7:52:45 AM PST by 1Old Pro
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To: superiorslots
You say unemployment is low.

Quite low on a relative basis.

O.k. I sell employee benefits(health insurance etc).

In the last 25 years I have never seen so many people that have to work 2-3 jobs because their wages are so low.

The wages aren't too low, your insurance is too high.

I used to see it in the low skilled blue collar jobs but have started to see it in white collar jobs as well..

And these people take public transportation and don't have all the trappings of modern American life?

Something needs o be done about the rampant wage lowering that is going on in this country throug illegal immigration and outsourcing and HB-1 visas.

Illegal immigration is a problem. Talk to your President about it, but try to be careful, you could get the boot.

BTW, I have been excoriated for using anecdotal evidence, so beware.

55 posted on 02/15/2005 7:57:52 AM PST by Protagoras (Un-apprehended criminals have no credibility when advocating for the WOD)
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To: Protagoras
You should not lean on anecdotal evidence so much, even worse when it's your very own anecdotal "situation"

That never happened. I was talking about fundamental economics, you folks kept making it personal.

Your first post implied that you are above and immune to such immigration impacting on you. This is in fact your "situation" is it not? But you are right that I brought the personal into it while you are 95% talking theory. Outmoded ones.

56 posted on 02/15/2005 7:58:36 AM PST by dennisw (Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”)
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To: Conspiracy Guy

Questions for you:
1. Would you hire 50somethings who have been "early retired" against their wishes?
2. Have such candidates applied?
3. Where are you located (generally speaking)
4. Are you a stickler about degrees?
5. How would you characterize the candidates who have applied thus far.


57 posted on 02/15/2005 7:58:45 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: TXBSAFH

Trust me, they will. Look for it to be milked for the mid term election and next presidential election.


58 posted on 02/15/2005 7:59:36 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: dfwgator
...I have seen ridiculous requirements for applicants, like 10 years of Java plus 5 years of .Net experience with C/C++/COBOL, requirements that noone could ever match.

I would rather hire good technical people with solid basic technical skills. They may not have the experience on the specific technology, but I would be confident that after a week or two of ramping up, they would probably be more productive than someone who has the specific experience, but poor general technical skills.

Unfortunately, employers with your common sense are outnumbered by those who are looking for ridiculous requirements. This forces people to lie about their qualifications. I've known people who have done it. They get hired. The employer realizes they did not get what they bargained for -- and sometimes lets the new employee go. Then the employer comes up with other ridiculous hoops, such as personality tests.

It has gotten bizarre. It doesn't even have to be poor technical skills. I applied recently for a position that required four previous implementations of Oracle Financials, including two of Project Accounting 11i. I have three previous implementations with two in Project Accounting, one of which was 11i. I never received a call.

59 posted on 02/15/2005 7:59:36 AM PST by ContraryMary
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To: Protagoras

Actually it is not a problem. If you can do my job for half what I get that's free enterprise.


60 posted on 02/15/2005 7:59:46 AM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Reading is fundamental. Comprehension is optional.)
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