Posted on 02/14/2005 2:56:44 PM PST by Soliton
Are Howard Dean and Judy Dean abortionists?
In a well-reported and thoroughly analyzed January 8th, 2004 interview with People Magazine, Drs. Dean were asked if they “were active in Planned Parenthood in Burlington”.
The conversation from that point went like this:
Judy: We both worked there, while we were residents, but I wouldn't call it active. Howard: And no, neither of us ever did an abortion.
Q: Why do you say it that way? Howard: Because I always get asked that. Q: Why didn't you perform abortions?
Howard: Because we don't do them. They don't train residents to do that.
Judy: When we were residents, we were working there basically to get GYN experience because you don't generally do it on hospitalized patients. And then you start to have a practice without having a lot of GYN experience.
Q: Do you have a moral opposition to performing the procedure? I mean, you're both physicians, you at some point — Howard: I think that's a private matter between the physician and the patient. I don't have a moral problem, but neither of us is trained to do abortions. We're both internists. Internists don't do abortions. ... It would be malpractice if we did.
Q: Would you do them if you'd had the training? Howard: I've learned long ago not to answer hypothetical questions like that. Both of us chose internal medicine, so we never had to make that choice. I firmly believe in the right to choose. This is a private matter between a doctor and a patient. It's none
Kathryn Jean Lopez, of National Review Online had this to say about the exchange:
“I have no idea if Howard Dean is telling the truth when he says he has never performed an abortion and that he does not have the necessary training. But I do have reason to wonder. Dean, it would seem, has spent way too much time as a politician around abortion-advocacy doublespeak: He may not know the truth anymore.”
And later in the same article, Ms. Lopez adds:
“And as an added question mark — Vermont is actually one of two states that allow non-physicians to perform abortions. What was that about malpractice, again?” www.nationalreview.com/lopez/lopez200401221110.asp
George Neumayer of The American Spectator had this to say about the same exchange in the same interview:
“Dean's comments to People magazine raise more questions than they answer. In a state where non-physicians are performing abortions, it seems remarkable that a former Planned Parenthood doctor and board member would never have performed, assisted at, or referred for abortions. (If a Republican presidential nominee had worked for the NRA, served on its executive board, and then said he didn't own guns, wouldn't the press find that a little curious?).” http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=6028
Both of the above publications are considered “right wing media”. Of course, if you are going to find questions that may expose the darlings of the “left wing media”, like the Deans, that’s where they would most likely originate.
I am only interested in the truth.
It appears to be as follows:
Dr. Howard Dean uses the phrases “did abortions” and “do abortions”. This apparently refers to surgical abortions because he goes on to say, “We're both internists. Internists don't do abortions. ... It would be malpractice if we did.”
The Deans are “Internists”, or those that practice internal medicine. Internal medicine is a non-surgical medical specialty concerned with diseases of internal organs in adults. Internists don’t “do” surgery; therefore the Deans couldn’t “do” abortions.
Both Lopez and Neumayr point out that Vermont allows non-physicians to “do” abortions these days, but that doesn’t mean it was the case when the doctors worked for Planned Parenthood.
The interesting fact missing from all of this is that there is a common non-surgical procedure for terminating pregnancy called Intrauterine Instillation:
“This abortion procedure involves either withdrawing a portion of amniotic fluid from the uterine cavity by a needle inserted through the abdominal wall and replacing this fluid with a concentrated salt solution (known as saline instillation, saline abortion, or saline amniotic fluid exchange) or injecting a prostaglandin - a substance with hormone-like activity - into the uterine cavity through a needle inserted through the abdominal wall (known as intra-uterine prostaglandin instillation). The saline instillation process induces labor, which results in the expulsion of the usually dead fetus approximately 24 to 48 hours later. The interval between prostaglandin injection and expulsion tends to be shorter than in a saline abortion.”
A physician would prescribe the medications and the procedure and then perform the instillation. This is something that an internist doing an internship with Planned Parenthood would reasonably be expected to do. The doctor introduces a chemical agent that in turn induces an abortion, but doesn’t actually “do” the abortion (the mother does). In the event of an incomplete delivery of the fetus or after birth, a D&C, not an “abortion would be performed.
Howard Dean’s Alma Mater practice this procedure while he was there:
Obstet Gynecol. 1972 Oct;40(4):556-62. Related Articles, Links
Factors responsible for delay in obtaining interruption of pregnancy.
Mallory GB Jr, Rubenstein LZ, Drosness DL, Kleiner GJ, Sidel VW.
PIP: A sample of 132 women undergoing early abortion by suction curettage or late abortion (after the twelfth week of gestation) by intrauterine saline instillation at the Hospital of the Albert Einstein College of Medicine between January 1 and March 31, 1971, were interviewed to explore why there are so many late abortions. Women having late abortions tended to be younger (mean age 22.2 compared to mean age 26.6 for women having early abortions) single and nulliparous and were less likely to use contraception than women seeking early abortions (only 26% under age 25 had used contraception compared to 71% of the same age group who had early abortions). The majority (55%) of the patients delayed abortions for personal reasons, but 26% of the abortions were delayed because of reasons related to the medical care system. Women from outside of New York experienced greater difficulty in obtaining abortions than residents as evidenced by the fact that almost 1/2 of the nonresidents had decided on abortion before the twelfth week and still had late abortions. In both the early and late groups nearly 14% had to wait longer than necessary to obtain abortions. The study suggests that both physicians and patients be made aware of the advantages of early abortion. Over 40% of the women in the study had never used contraception, a result which stresses the need for health education and counseling with emphasis on contraception, particularly among the inexperienced and younger women. Until a major shift is seen from late to early abortion however, saline abortions must be provided safely and with consideration for the woman.
If Howard Dean did perform this procedure it might explain something confusing he said to Kathryn Jean Lopez:
“This all makes what he said during a conference call last week a little more understandable. Dean claimed, "No doctor is going to do an abortion on a live fetus. That doesn't happen. Doctors don't do that. If they do, they'll get their license pulled, as well they should."
If you recall from the description above:
“The saline instillation process induces labor, which results in the expulsion of the usually dead fetus…” It’s all just clean up from there.
I don’t know what Dr. Dean did as an intern at Planned Parenthood, or for that matter, before or since. I do know that his answers are incomplete and factually incorrect. As he and the democrat Party reach out to evangelicals, and try to move to the center, they should have the integrity to be honest about his record. He should release his case files from his time at Planned Parenthood.
The only way this can be confirmed is if a patient actually has a change of heart and comes forward as Covey has.
Why isn't is "malpractice" under any conditions?
It would be unusual for an internist to perform a surgical procedure, although it's certainly not impossible that he did. But I'm not sure I see the point. Has anyone come forward claiming that Dean performed an abortion on them? He's already pro-choice. What exactly does all this rumor and conjecture accomplish?
The point is that there is a non-surgical procedure that would fall under an internists role in an abortion clinic.
I wouldn't doubt it. The Dems would just love that.
Liberal doublespeak. Having had GYN procedures while hospitalized, I can tell you that half the docs running around in teaching hospitals are residents. So what's the "it" she is talking about?
During the Primaries, some freeper accessed Judy Dean's web site and discovered that the nice liberal doctor lady does not accept Medicare or Medicaid payments. Maybe she's changed that by now.
He has no "moral problem" with abortion? That tells you all you need to know, regardless of whether or not he ever actually performed them!
Not this time. She's taking about pelvic exams.
Internal medicine residents are not trained to do surgical procedure (that's for the surgical and OG/GYN residents) but they may have watched the procedures and taught post-op care.
I know the whole article is long, but if you read it you will see that we are not talking about a surgical, but a medical procedure called Intruterine Instillation.
I don't know if the Deans did or did not do abortions.
However I don't find anything they've said as inconsistent with typical training given an Internist. Most internists don't go to PP to get extra GYN training but I can believe their explanantion that they did go to PP to get extra experience without resorting to insisting they performed abortions.
In the hospital most GYN procedures are done by GYN residents. Very few Gyn procedures are done by internal medicine residents. During my internship in Internal Medicine while on the wards I think I did 2 pelvic exams.
AS to others who discuss malpractice and procedures done by non-medical people, MD's are held to a higher standard. An outcome that wouldn't be malpractice if done by a lay person may well be malpractice if done by a physician. (At least that's my understanding of Good Samaritan Laws...lay folks stopping and helping at the scene of an accident can't be sued, MD's can. While I'm not a lawyer I wouldn't be surprised to find the same double standard in place for the abortion question.)
The only medical profession where doctors get paid in teenage girl's piggy bank cash.
Dean should have admitted performing abortions last year... He would have been a shoe in for the Democratic nomination for President
I beleive we will see the deano's medical procedure records right after john f----ing kerry signs form 180 to release his service records
Bump for great freeping.
How long before the first "Bill Clinton was an Internist too" jokes?
Here's a Dean link on abortion and his views:
http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Abortion.htm
If Kerry signs his 180, I'd say there was a good chance of Dean releasing his case files. In that case, watch the swine levitate.
Why is abortion so controversial anyway. I thought Abortion was a right. A right much like freedom of speech. You can't argue with a right, especially the right to choose. Choice is as American as apple pie.
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