Posted on 02/13/2005 10:41:05 AM PST by nsmart
The FairTax is the non-partisan national sales tax proposal that would replace all federal income taxes. These include personal, estate, gift, self-employment, alternative minimum, capital gains, FICA, and corporate and death taxes.
(Excerpt) Read more at WWW.FAIRTAX.ORG ...
Only short term interest rates. You'll notice that in 2004 the Fed raised short term interest rates 3 times and long term interest rates (mortgage rates) ended the year the way they began, at historic lows. Long term interest rates are more susceptible to inflation factors. The NRST is inflationary in that it tacks on 20-30% to prices over and above the pre-bate but it adds purchasing power in the form of higher take home wages. It would be interesting to see from a macroeconomic standpoint the effect of having food, water, warmth decling in price while life's little luxuries are increasing. I don't think there's ever been such a scenario.
Not at all. Nobody is going broke paying for smokes in NYC. Even those outrageous taxes aren't enormous from a taxpayer's perspective in total dollar terms. They are just relatively easy to evade and there is very little risk of prosecution. Enforcing sales taxes at 30% will take far more agents than we have with the IRS.
How could it be possible that the revenue nuetral NRST becomes an unbearable burden when the cost is brought to light?
Again, it's not an unbearable burden; just one very easy to evade.
Could it be that with the current structure the politicians can continue to expand their control out of the sight of the citizens?
It's pretty easy to see when your withholding is increased. Back in the 70's the pols figured out a way to spend more without raising taxes: Inflate the money supply and blame greedy businesses for raising prices. We have to remain watchful no matter how they raise funds.
How do you propose reducing the size of the government, to a level that the citizens are willing to bear, while still keeping the cost hidden from the citizens? Do you have an alternative?
Yes I do. STOP UNNECESSARY SPENDING!! There are certainly tax reform steps that are desperately needed -- reduction of the insanely high corporate tax rate for starters (which is among the highest in the world), but the real problem is out-of-control spending, not how we decide to pay for it.
"Not at all. Nobody is going broke paying for smokes in NYC. Even those outrageous taxes aren't enormous from a taxpayer's perspective in total dollar terms."
Are you honestly claiming that $7 per pack cost for cigs is not outragous in the consumer's mind?
"Again, it's not an unbearable burden; just one very easy to evade."
If it is not unbearable, why would evasion take place? Why do so many people bear the state sales taxes?
"It's pretty easy to see when your withholding is increased."
For you and I, but how about the citizen that doesn't care to educate themselves? How about those that consider their tax return to be a windfall? How about the 49% that pay 0% in fed taxes?
"Yes I do. STOP UNNECESSARY SPENDING!!"
I don't disagree. However, why would a politician stop spending when they can use the current code to buy votes. They steal from the productive to give to the unproductive. They continually expand the ranks of the untaxed and increase the rate of taxation on the most productive. How can this be stopped without forcing the burden to be carried and in plain view of everyone?
Yep, and just think of the beast you would have to create to try to enforce it. I would imagine it would be something like the ATF only on a more massive scale. Studies in Europe have shown once a sales tax gets above 11%, the evasion rates skyrocket. The idea that you can get $2.5 trillion out of our economy without a strong federal agency is pure fantasy. The existence of an IRS-type is not unique to an income tax, but to any tax. Internet sales and e-mails and shipments will have to be monitored heavily for this system to have any chance at working.
I'll take the psychic hotline for $100 Alex....
Fourth, as I have said many times on these threads, Americans like to spend money and when they have more of it under the NRST they will spend it. Americans have to have their newest gadget.
I'll take the psychic hotline for $100 Alex....
Good of you to let us all know you are ignorant don't have a clue about economics or taxation.
That way we can be sure to take your off the wall pronouncements and unfounded assertions seriesly.
And you can stuff it up your butt. All you do is post stuff you have no idea what it means. It rarely makes any sense to the point being discussed.
The legions would materialize faster than you can say Al Capone.
You took my quote out of context. The poster I was responding to said that the evasion was evidence that the overall burden of taxation was too high. I was pointing out that the cigarette tax in NYC, while very high in isolation, is not a very high percentage of the total taxes paid by a taxpayer. Therefore people aren't evading the tax because the overall level of tax is high; they just don't like paying $7 tax on cigs and it is easy to evade!
That's precisely my point with the "FairTax" -- it will be too easy to evade without lots of enforcement agents.
Really? You make lots of assumptions that have no basis. If people break the law now to save $20 bucks on a carton of cirgarettes, why do you think avoidance would be only on big ticket item. And what agency is gonna enforce this? How are you gonna stop me from getting a $400 IPOD shipped from Canada? You gonna go through all my mail? You gonna audit me, make sure I have proper Fair Tax receipts for all my items? I really want to know how on earth you think this can be enforced without a huge intrusive government.
Oh my such language.
Apparently you're stuck with jumping blindly with little more than hot air.
Unfortunate that.
I am sorry if you are offended by the word 'butt'. I am sure after your insulting post that you are really offended. How much does FAIR or whomever feeds you info pays you to post? You wouldn't be the first who is on the Fair Tax payroll to post on FreeRepublic.
If you've already seen the required forms you have me at a disadvantage but using history of government bureaucracies as my guide I'd say the required forms, other than mailing a check, wouldn't be much different than they are today...
Who's making assumptions?
That's no assumption, that's a know fact. FAIR/NRST folks have paid people to post here on FreeRepublic and have feed them information to post. And I wouldn't be surprised if geezer is not getting $400-800 to post to FreeRepublic.
A huge intrusive government is what we have now. Most retailers have no incentive to cheat on this. The enforcement arm of the NRST would be looking for black marketers, not exactly a problem in my opinion. Where do you think black marketers in NY get their cigarettes? Either from North Carolina or from some Indian reservation. In both cases what are being avoided are state taxes and levies. The NRST would apply to both reservations and to NC.
Geezer, can I donate? I don't believe it AR but I really don't care if they are. You think the fair tax will hurt your home building business, I think it could, initially, but the long run ecomic boom will make you very wealthy.
How much does FAIR or whomever feeds you info pays you to post?
You mean there's someone out there handing out money to do this, let me at em. I've managed doing it free from long before the Fair Tax Act even existed. I suppose I probably will have to keep right on managing it.
You wouldn't be the first who is on the Fair Tax payroll to post on FreeRepublic.
LOL, wouldn't surprise me abit if someone working for AFT were posting on FR, the one I have known are pretty conservative folks, and small businessmen, I certainly hope they are reading these threads and providing some input.
But then It wouldn't surprise me abit to find out people from NCPA or Brookings are lurking around here and throwing their darts in for VATs an status quo either, in fact I'm pretty certain of that one.
Tell us, is something wrong with those who author and know the most about a piece of legislation or a subject or plan informing others about their views and defending it in open debate?
If not even the authors could defend a concept, seems to me it would never go anywhere. It would just start with words end with words, not a very worthwhile endvour. Certainly not something that would have any potential for changing governemnt or accomplishing anything in the world.
You one of those types who figures that no one should be paid for professional efforts and application of knowledge? I doubt the many engineers and other professionals I have worked with all my life would agree very much with that kind of thinking.
Or do you figure, that someone might have the dreaded "AGENDA", shaking head, everyone has an agenda, usually what ever drives them to support their views of the world, politics and anything else the want to kabitz about. Strange that some might actually want to accomplish something isn't it.
The NRST would apply to both reservations and to NC.Not if you have a business use certificate.
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