Posted on 02/13/2005 8:46:21 AM PST by Scenic Sounds
M aya Keyes loves her father and mother. She put off college and moved from the family home in Darnestown to Chicago to be with her dad on a grand adventure. Even though she disagrees with him on "almost everything" political, she worked hard for his quixotic and losing campaign for the U.S. Senate.
Now Maya Keyes -- liberal, lesbian and a little lost -- finds herself out on her own. She says her parents -- conservative commentator and perennial candidate Alan Keyes and his wife, Jocelyn -- threw her out of their house, refused to pay her college tuition and stopped speaking to her.
(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...
It's very simple. If I tell you the price of a hot dog is five hundred dollars, it doesn't matter if it's hiway robbery, it will take your last dime, you're starving... you can bitch, moan, and complain but if you take the hot dog, you have accepted my price.
Peter had very compelling reasons, but according to the dictates of Keyes faith, he was still responsible for the triple denial of Christ. Should Keyes seek to dilute his own understanding and conviction in similar circumstances?
As for you qualifiers (don't agree or approve), they are meaningless in the sense that they make no substantive difference from your full agreement with your daughter (while retaining your own personal preferences). If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, and swims like a duck, it is disingenuous to call it anything other than a duck.
"As long as I was quiet about being gay or my politics, we got along," she says. "Then I went to the Counterinaugural," last month's protests in Washington against President Bush. "My father didn't like that."
Well, that's YOUR side of the story. I'm sure it all wasn't peaches and cream. You stated that your parents told you that your behavior was sinful and wrong. They communicated their views to you.
If you want to rebel, then getting the boot goes along with it. Grow up, Little Girl! You want to have the opinions and politics of an adult, then go for it, but don't whine about it! (When I read about adults like this one playing the "discrimination card" against their parents I just want to scream! I was out on my own at 17 and I liked my parents, LOL!)
Even after the triple denial, Christ still loved Peter, and did not reject him.
In fact, according to the dictates of Keyes' faith, Christ still set Peter as the head of His church.
Well, this is sad. She isn't just rebelling against her dad's beliefs, she's rebelling against God. Alan Keyes wants to live his beliefs. She shouldn't expect him to support her choices. She hasn't honored her father and mother (one of the 10 commandments) and she's old enough to separate from them and make a living on her own. Why should he be required to finance her choice of lifestyle? She chose her own path. I'm sure this is more painful for the parents than it is for this outspoken, rebellious young adult. Shame on her and the media for encouraging her complaint against her father.
Incorrect. The two are separate issues.
The orthodox understanding is while Christ still loved Peter, His three "Do You love Me"s were prerequisite to restoring Peter.
Also note that in the same exchange Christ tells Peter his manner of death as opposed to the open question of John's death. Not conclusive, but strong reason to infer the denials and the manner of death are related, despite Peter's return to Grace.
I wonder if it has occured to posters that MAYBE the parents are in too much pain to talk to their daughter - particularly when the daughter seems to be completely unrepentant and, in fact, rejoicing in her behavior?
This happened for a time with both of my oldest kids. Without reliving details, they both did things that caused us great pain. We pretty much stopped talking to them for a while - a 5 min conversation would leave them unfazed, but have my wife crying for the entire day.
Both eventually discovered their behavior was causing THEM pain - the consequences of doing wrong. Both repented, and are trying to pick up the pieces. Both are welcome and talk to us regularly now.
But I saw no reason to encourage their sin - and 'accepting' them while they were in total rebellion would have been just that. It is worth remembering that the Prodigal Son was forgiven - AFTER he returned to his father. His father did not make daily trips to the pig sty to 'accept him as he was'.
Indeed, we are called on to imitate God - and while he loves us unconditionally, he accepts us based on repentance.
I don't like Keyes, but it seems to me he and his wife are probably broken hearted over their daughter's behavior (I know I would be) and don't wish to assist her sin.
What does unconditional love mean?
Back in the dark ages, when I was in school (late 40's, 50's) it was considered normal for teen girls to have "crushes" on female teachers. Apparently boys seemed too scary or something.
No one ever thought that made the girls lesbians.
He couldn't be that broken-hearted. He accepted her work in his campaign and did not throw her out until after elections were over.
My guess (if forced to guess) would be the opposite. Having embraced her disgraceful passions, she'd find the Left's amoral blob far more congenial than the Right, many of whom also affirm God's standards.
She's got all the buzz words down pat. "Global justice", etc. It is interesting that the article doesn't tell about how she discovered she was a lesbian. That's usually a key feature in one of these stories.
Let me get this straight. You're trying to claim that maintaining relations with someone equates to complete and total acceptance of their lifestyle? You don't have children do you?
<< What does unconditional love mean? >>
To give you an opinionated, loaded response: the way it is used today, it equates to unconditional approval.
Or, in our circles, unconditional approval with attendant verbal denial that it is unconditional approval.
Dan
For all intents and purposes: Yup. I'd like to hear your distinction that makes it different though.
Oh I have no doubt that you might try to harangue them a bit for their lifestyle, but frankly if you'll roll over on your principle, you'll roll over if they demand (under penalty of disaffection) you not bring it up again.
As to whether or not I have children, please explain how that affects the conclusion. Mind you, I'm neither confirming, nor denying, but pointing out you are reduced to a variation of "playing the race card." When you can quantify what difference parenthood makes in deciding between the supremacy of ones religious convictions, or familial associations, I will answer.
If you have to ask, you don't have children.
If you have to assert that, you don't have an answer.
For all intents and purposes: Yup. I'd like to hear your distinction that makes it different though.
I started to reply to the above, but finally erased the better part of a paragraph. With all the respect I can muster, I can only say that we're so far apart on this that we can barely communicate. I don't understand you at all, and to be frank, I'm kinda tired of trying to see where you're coming from. I'm becoming more and more convinced that I can't.
As for asking if you had children being the equivalent to the race card, hardly. I was seeking to know if you were intellectualizing the love a father feels for his children, or if you'd actually walked in those shoes. I'm really hoping it's the former. It wouldn't help me understand you any better, but it would give me hope. If you are a parent, then you and I are as the night the day.
So with that. Consider this my concession. You win. I don't understand you, I can't understand you, I won't understand you. Take your pick. I don't care. The end result is the same: Our fundamental views of the situation are different that we can't even really disagree, let alone agree.
"Some people put a whole lot of things ahead of politics. ;-)"
For sure. That's why I think there's more to it than the simplistic presentation the Post made. I also note that it's strictly from her point of view thus take it all with a grain of salt.
Very graciously done my FRiend. We are agreed to disagree then.
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