Sources: USS San Francisco skipper faces admiral's mast in sub grounding

Stars & Stripes ^ | 2/11/5 | Jon R. Anderson

[rlmorel]

Perhaps for the same reason fighter aircraft do not generally use their onboard radar systems unless they are actively engaged with a enemy or prospective enemy. Using radar (or sonar) lets everyone know what you are, who you are, and where you are. In the submarine service, that is the worst thing you can do.

[SmithL]

There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Navy way. Like every other Captain before him, Commander Mooney understood the rules of the game when he took command. I don't have to like it, but I can't say that I'm surprised.

[pennyfarmer]

That's why I wonder what else is at play here.

He's the Captain. Thats it.....

Sometimes the Captain goes down with the ship, and sometimes he goes down when it gets back. But he will always go down when there are mishaps like this one.

[Doohickey]

It's hard to explain, but that's just not the way the Navy works. Someone is always accountable. It may not seem fair, but the military isn't about fair. That's the way it is, that's the way it always has been, and that's the way it always will be.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

I was always told that an Admiral's/Captain's mast was the same as an article 15 for Army and Air Force. They can only do one or the other, but not both. For an Officer either is a career ender.

[drt1]

Yeah, I know that but this fact of blind and blanket responsibility doesn't sit well even though it is the way the Navy deals with this type of mishap.

[BykrBayb]

Thanks for the ping.

I read in an article shortly after it happened (or maybe it was on tv or radio) another captain said the San Fran was going to fast for the area at the time. I don't know how he could know, but that's the closest I've come to hearing anything the captain may have done wrong.

[HairOfTheDog]

This is a shame. The man dedicated his life to the Navy and this nation.

I agree.

[Goodgirlinred]

Well, they better let him retire at full rank and pay.

[pennyfarmer]

When you go to Admiral or Captain's mast they can recommend you go to courts martial. You will not have punishment dealt at mast if you are going to courts martial.

[SmithL]

According to CNN, Navy Cmdr. Kevin Mooney will not be charged with any crime and will not be court-martialed, leading me to believe tht he will be able to retire at full rank and pay.

[Goodgirlinred]

Well, that is something. However, his career is ruined. I can imagine how awful he feels. And, one of his men is dead.

[hemi dawg]

you know what--you are on to something here!
A more sensitive ear could hear the lack of noise from the forward direction.
Let's apply for a DARPA grant.

[PotatoHeadMick]

It's really all very simple when you're the skipper the buck stops with you that's what all the fancy gold braid and extra rations are about. I imagine he has absolutely no problem with this he knew the deal when he signed on.

I remember a couple of years ago a British ship the HMS Norfolk grounded itself on a rock causing great embarassment she had to be towed backwards into port by the Aussies (you can imagine the ragging the British crew must have had to endure from their antipodean cousins). Anyway the captain who wasn't even in the bridge at the time was hauled up in front of the Admiralty board of enquiry. As he entered a journalist asked him if he felt he was being hard done by, he just smiled and said something to the effect that just as the sun rises in the morning so it is if you put a big hole in one of Her Majesty's ships you can expect to be in front of the Admiralty Board. He had the right spirit.

[taxesareforever]

His career's over. Perhaps should be.

I don't understand your reasoning on this. I think he should be commended for his handling of the situation.

[TheLion]

This is probably SOP for the Navy after a major incident like this occurs. I wouldn't read anything into it at this early date.

Facts will come out.

[BIGLOOK]

Admiral's Mast....whew! SF skipper should do ok.

[kingu]

The investigation is not over with, preliminary reports are available, but no one is expecting any full reports on the incident for another 7 months.

The skipper lost his ship in friendly waters for no good reason. Yes, the mountain was on the chart a couple miles away, but when push comes to shove, the sub hit a mountain at full speed.

He won't ever command another floating vessel unless he buys one. You don't wreck a billion dollars and then get patted on the back, told 'tough luck there' and given another command. His career is more than over. Unfair? Probably. He was doing what he was supposed to do. No one ever said the military was fair, or if they did, they either said it from ignorance or deception.

[Smokin' Joe]

Mountain shaped areas ( seamounts and guyots) are likely to have a lot of faunal activity associated with them, and may well have reefs around them as well.

While it is possible the commanding officer was at fault, this does not seem to fit the picture his other accomplishments paint. It may well be that the effective chart was defective.

[KeyWest]

It SHOULD have been on his charts (but it wasn't).

From the article it appears there was an older chart on board that showed a possible hazard in the area. I have no idea what scale the chart was, but my guess is it was a small area chart (local type) rather than a large area, usually used for transit. If it had been an older, outdated chart, it would have been deep-sixed and not on board.

So, as an ex-navigator, my guess is the small area chart was not checked and it was assumed the large area one was fine for the transit. That is a big no-no.

Also, from the other post on his punishment, he was assigned to a basket case to get it in order. Nav may have been low on the list.

I was sent to such a ship, but as an XO. The CO put me to work on the admin part of my duties but left the navigator part to an old timer. We went aground (an LST but we were not supposed to go aground where we did) and I was immediately assigned as the investigator and also, Navigator. I found we ran aground on a not-charted sand bar. (It was probably more the wash from our screws as we tried to get off.) The CO (a Lt), took full responsibility. Nothing happened to him. He had a great career (including Presidential aid) and was a Captain on his way to Flag when he unexpectedly died of a heart attack.