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Science's new heresy trial
WORLD ^ | 2/19/05 | Gene Edward Veith

Posted on 02/11/2005 12:34:49 PM PST by Zender500

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1 posted on 02/11/2005 12:34:49 PM PST by Zender500
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To: PatrickHenry

More hypocritical wailing from the creationists. This time they even got the facts wrong.


2 posted on 02/11/2005 12:37:54 PM PST by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: Zender500
This is great. There is one view and if you question it they fall back on bias [religion].

Don't even ask if there may be a different analysis. We won't discuss it and we will SHUNN you. So that's what science is?
[Barf, Barf and Barf]
Sounds like our our college professors.

Frannie
3 posted on 02/11/2005 12:42:33 PM PST by frannie (I REPEAT --THE TRUTH WILL SET US ALL FREE--)
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To: Zender500

...in other news, Ward Churchill, the controversial Colorado University professor who proclaims 9-11 WTC victims to be culpable in their own deaths, continues to draw a paycheck from the university and retain his tenure as a Professor of Ethnic Studies.


4 posted on 02/11/2005 12:42:33 PM PST by randog (What the....?!)
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To: Zender500
And "information invariably arises from conscious rational activity."

Meyer has fallen and he can't get up.

5 posted on 02/11/2005 12:45:11 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored
And "information invariably arises from conscious rational activity." Meyer has fallen and he can't get up.

You disagree? So give an example.

6 posted on 02/11/2005 12:47:32 PM PST by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Legislatures are so outdated. If you want real politcal victory, take your issue to court.)
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To: Zender500
Inteligent Design may very well be true, but it can never be science.

Science is a limited discipline that studies how the world works when there is no supernatural intervention.

Theology is the discipline that studies how the world works when there is supernatural intervention.

Therefore, Inteligent Design, even if absolutely 100% true and provable does not belong in a magazine of Science, any more than it belongs in a magazine on needlepoint.

So9

7 posted on 02/11/2005 12:52:00 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past

Nucleosynthesis in stars. The amount of information required to specify the state of, say, an atom of carbon 12 is larger than the amount of information required to specify the state of an atom of hydrogen or an atom of helium. Would Meyer claim that stars are consciously and rationally converting hydrogen and helium into heavier elements?


8 posted on 02/11/2005 12:53:39 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: The Ghost of FReepers Past; snarks_when_bored
And "information invariably arises from conscious rational activity." Meyer has fallen and he can't get up.

You disagree? So give an example.

Read any of the hundreds of articles on self organizing complexity demonstrated in Conway's game of "Life" for a start.

The idea that complexity self organizing itself was a violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics is debunked in Enrico Fermi's "Thermodynamics" written before WWII.

Conway's 'Life' demonstrates this in action using any home computer.

So9

9 posted on 02/11/2005 12:57:17 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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To: Servant of the 9
Therefore, Inteligent Design, even if absolutely 100% true and provable does not belong in a magazine of Science, any more than it belongs in a magazine on needlepoint.

Presumably this means that bioengineers will have to start their own magazines and peer reviewed network or is ID time based? IOW, ID prior to the 20th Century is verboten but it is OK after that time?

10 posted on 02/11/2005 12:58:06 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Servant of the 9

But the major component of this story is not ID, evolution, lifes origins or complexity, it is technofascism gone wild if this guys boss actually interrogated him as to his religious beliefs and political affiliation.


11 posted on 02/11/2005 1:00:39 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
Therefore, Inteligent Design, even if absolutely 100% true and provable does not belong in a magazine of Science, any more than it belongs in a magazine on needlepoint.

Presumably this means that bioengineers will have to start their own magazines and peer reviewed network or is ID time based? IOW, ID prior to the 20th Century is verboten but it is OK after that time?

The rest of us are talking about ID as supernatural intervention in the world, not man's natural processes.

So9

12 posted on 02/11/2005 1:01:22 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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To: Servant of the 9
The rest of us are talking about ID as supernatural intervention in the world, not man's natural processes.

Right, which means your a priori assumption that all ID requires a supernatural being simply wrong. And the evidence for that is all around you.

By the way is the creation of chimeras at will a "natural process".

13 posted on 02/11/2005 1:04:21 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
But the major component of this story is not ID, evolution, lifes origins or complexity, it is technofascism gone wild if this guys boss actually interrogated him as to his religious beliefs and political affiliation.

You're right. His boss shouldn't have wasted time trying to determine if the man had made an error or was temporarily insane, or had decided to corrupt the discipline of science for religious or political reasons and just fired him out of hand.

To hell with attempted compassion.

SO9

14 posted on 02/11/2005 1:05:23 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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To: Servant of the 9

To hell with fascists working for the government interrogating their underlings about their religious and political affiliations.


15 posted on 02/11/2005 1:08:06 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Servant of the 9
It sounds as if Meyer is arguing that the "science of evolution" as presently comprised is insufficient to explain how the world works when there is no supernatural intervention, at least in the limited example of the Cambrian Explosion".

If that is the case, his call for a different theory being advanced that is more capable would indeed be "science" whether or not it is called "intelligent design" or require intelligent intervention.

Personally, I don't believe that there will EVER be a way to "prove" the existence of God to a nonbeliever and think a case could be made that such a statement is mathematically provable - so I don't care either way whether "God" personally, "intelligently" intervened in the evolution of species. I merely find the debate here fascinating.
16 posted on 02/11/2005 1:08:58 PM PST by AFPhys ((.Praying for President Bush, our troops, their families, and all my American neighbors..))
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To: jwalsh07
Right, which means your a priori assumption that all ID requires a supernatural being simply wrong. And the evidence for that is all around you.

No one rejects the idea of ID by man. All technology is ID by man. It's a phoney issue. That is not what this is about.

That leaves ID by aliens or supernatural entities.
Without evidence of even the existance of alien life, that is not a viable hypothesis, but looking for evidence of alien life is.
And that leaves ID by supernatural entities, which is Theology, not science.

So9

17 posted on 02/11/2005 1:10:13 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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To: Zender500
In scientific and other academic scholarship, submitting research to the judgment of other experts in the field ensures that published articles have genuine merit.Peer review is not perfect and does not guarantee 'genuine merit'. If an editor sends a proposed article out for peer review to people known to favor a certain viewpoint, then peer review may not be objective.
18 posted on 02/11/2005 1:15:30 PM PST by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket
Drat. Let me repost.

In scientific and other academic scholarship, submitting research to the judgment of other experts in the field ensures that published articles have genuine merit.

Peer review is not perfect and does not guarantee 'genuine merit'. If an editor sends a proposed article out for peer review to people known to favor a certain viewpoint, then peer review may not be objective.

19 posted on 02/11/2005 1:17:36 PM PST by rustbucket
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To: AFPhys
It sounds as if Meyer is arguing that the "science of evolution" as presently comprised is insufficient to explain how the world works when there is no supernatural intervention, at least in the limited example of the Cambrian Explosion".

If that is the case, his call for a different theory being advanced that is more capable would indeed be "science" whether or not it is called "intelligent design" or require intelligent intervention.

Calling for a new theory is valid science. The current on is certainly not complete, but once supernatural intervention is postulated, all theory is replaced by that one statement. Did trilobites become extinct? Why? God did it. End of story. Are fossil deposits different in this formation than in another? Why? God did it. End of story.

The 'theory' that God Did It trumps every other theory at every other level. Once yo accept it at any point you have no logical reason to reject it at any other. Go directly to the 5th Century, do not pass go, do not collect a mind you will no longer need.

SO9

20 posted on 02/11/2005 1:18:15 PM PST by Servant of the 9 (Trust Me)
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