[Servant of the 9]

And "information invariably arises from conscious rational activity." Meyer has fallen and he can't get up.

You disagree? So give an example.

Read any of the hundreds of articles on self organizing complexity demonstrated in Conway's game of "Life" for a start.

The idea that complexity self organizing itself was a violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics is debunked in Enrico Fermi's "Thermodynamics" written before WWII.

Conway's 'Life' demonstrates this in action using any home computer.

So9

[jwalsh07]

But the major component of this story is not ID, evolution, lifes origins or complexity, it is technofascism gone wild if this guys boss actually interrogated him as to his religious beliefs and political affiliation.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

So does self organizing explain the information in the 4 letter DNA alphabet? They just self assemble? Do amnio acids just link together all by themselves to create protein? A "biochemical predestination"? The guy that came up with that theory has already repudiated himself, saying that "we have not the slightest chance of a chemical evolutionary origin for even the simplest of cells."

Just tell me how this self ordering works in the case of proteins. How is it that the long line of amnio acids line up the way they do and then fold so that the protein can perform the functions that keep a cell alive?

When you explain the sequencing of DNA and proteins as being the result of self-organization, then tell me why it isn't just a repetitive sequence. Self-organizing can't actually explain a genetic message, can it? It can only give us a repetitive mantra. DNA information is not just a load of repeating sequences. It is the irregular sequencing of letters to convey information, much like you see in a book -- on on this thread. You cannot say that your post is the result of the letters self-organizing. Your post is clearly the result of intelligence (albeit with the wrong conclusions).

the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the the -- that's what you get with self-ordering. Bonding affinities can explain the orgin of the molecular structure of various elements; that's not the case for proteins and DNA.

Specified complexity -- irregularity that is specified by a set of functional requirements, like English, vocabulary, grammar -- is INFORMATION that is ALWAYS the result of mind, not chance, not natural selection, and not self-organizational processes.