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America isn't a 'Christian' nation [BARF!]
Jerusalem Post ^ | Feb. 10, 2005 | Shmuely Boteach

Posted on 02/09/2005 6:53:28 PM PST by Alouette

President George W. Bush's victory last November was a triumph for Jewish conservatives who have long argued for a close alliance with evangelical Christians in promoting the Judeo-Christian values upon which America is founded. Such a tiny and vulnerable nation needs friends and I, for one, reveled in Jews having found allies who revere the Bible and prophets, are staunch supporters of Israel, and oppose the crassness of the popular culture.

It has been only four months since the election, but already we have discovered fissures in this special relationship.

As Christmas approached, many right-wing Christians blamed atheist Jews for trying to de-Christianize the holiday. In a TV debate on MSNBC between myself and my friend Bill Donohue, the president of the Catholic League, he made huge news by alleging that "Hollywood is controlled by secular Jews who hate Christianity" and who are poisoning America with a toxic culture.

Then there was the recent revelation that Pope Pius XII had ordered Church authorities not to return Jewish children to their rightful guardians after the Holocaust if they had been baptized. I penned a column condemning the Vatican's plan to canonize this man, and received hundreds of angry, even hate-filled e-mails alleging that I was slandering a holy man whom Catholics are readying for sainthood.

Obviously, even in this new age of rapprochement, Jewish and Christian interests will sometimes conflict. But in such moments, it is incumbent upon the Jewish community to stand up for itself and not pander to our Christian brethren's sensibilities. Such pandering insults Christians by offering them a fraudulent relationship, and it insults Jews by reinforcing the age-old stereotype of the court Jew with no backbone.

Sadly, many of my Jewish conservative colleagues, bending to market forces, increasingly see their role as champions of Christianity rather than of their people.

When my debate with Donohue exploded into the newspapers, I was invited on to the radio shows of fellow Jewish conservatives Dennis Prager and Michael Medved. Both are devout Jews and outstanding ethical lights, with Dennis in particular serving as one of America's most gifted exponents of morality. Yet, I was astonished when both Prager and Medved defended and agreed with Donohue's statement that it was secular Jews who oppose Christianity who were primarily responsible for the sleaze coming out of Hollywood.

But this was chickenfeed compared to what Rabbi Daniel Lapin, another friend and colleague, recently wrote on the subject: "You'd have to be a recent immigrant from Outer Mongolia not to know of the role that people with Jewish names play in the coarsening of our culture. Almost every American knows this. It is just that most gentiles are too polite to mention it ... The sad fact is that through Jewish actors, playwrights, and producers, the Berlin stage of Weimar Germany linked Jews and deviant sexuality in all its sordid manifestations just as surely as Broadway does today. Much of the filth in American entertainment today parallels that of Germany between the wars."

Not contenting himself with the wholesale defamation of his people, Lapin then does the unthinkable, quoting from Hitler's Mein Kampf to strengthen the point that Jewish degeneracy nurtures anti-Semitism: "Was there any form of filth or profligacy, particularly in cultural life, without at least one Jew involved in it?"

Far less offensive, but equally curious, was how some of the foremost Jewish conservatives in America became high-profile promoters of Christmas. Jeff Jacoby, the outstanding writer for the Boston Globe, weighed in with a column entitled, "A Jew Says 'Merry Christmas,'" about how much he loves Christmas decorations and music.

Charles Krauthammer, the foremost champion of Israel in America and arguably this country's most talented op-ed writer, wrote that he felt sympathy for those Christian-Americans who "get angry at parents who want to ban carols because they tremble that their kids might feel 'different' and 'uncomfortable' should they, God forbid, hear Christian music sung at their school."

But Jewish kids really should feel uncomfortable if they are compelled to sing Christian spirituals like "Silent Night" in order to be part of a school choir, just as surely as Christian children should feel uncomfortable if they are compelled to sing songs in a school choir about the greatness of the prophet Muhammad.

Now, I too want to see a very robust Christianity in America. But surely these writers understand the paucity of committed Jews capable of promoting something authentically Jewish in American culture. Are not the millions of Christian champions of Christianity enough? Will we Jews forever consign Judaism to the status of a backwater religion?

Is it not highly misguided, not to mention erroneous, for Medved and Lapin to openly speak of America as a "Christian" nation, something bound to make Jews feel like they are guests in someone else's land?

What started this trend was Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ, which many Jewish conservatives not only defended but passionately promoted. As late as last week Medved, who called the film the greatest Biblical adaptation ever, wrote a piece in The Wall Street JournalNow, I am not so cynical as to believe that Medved, a noble man, would sell out his people in order to suck up to a celebrity. But, like me, Medved is a radio host whose show appeals primarily to conservatives and evangelicals, and his actions must be understood in light of these demographics.

Will Judaism ever find a high-profile voice in the world? Or will we forever be forced to choose between Jewish isolationists who argue that Judaism is only for Jews, and apologists who practice Judaism but champion a religion that claims to have supplanted it?

The author is a nationally syndicated radio host in the US. www.shmuley.com


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Extended News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: barf; boteach; christiannation; judeochristian; lookwhohatesjews; rabbishmuley; rabbishmuleyboteach; shmuely; shmuleyboteach
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Shut up Shmuley. You're an embarrassment. Shut up. Shut up.

STFU!!!!!

1 posted on 02/09/2005 6:53:30 PM PST by Alouette
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To: 1bigdictator; 1st-P-In-The-Pod; 2sheep; A Jovial Cad; A_Conservative_in_Cambridge; a_witness; ...
FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel ping list.

WARNING: This is a high volume ping list

2 posted on 02/09/2005 6:53:58 PM PST by Alouette (Learned Mother of Zion)
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To: Alouette

""Then there was the recent revelation that Pope Pius XII had ordered Church authorities not to return Jewish children to their rightful guardians after the Holocaust if they had been baptized.""

That was proven to be untrue. People like this just love to be angry.


3 posted on 02/09/2005 6:58:05 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell (Forgive Russia, Ignore Germany, Punish France - Condoleezza Rice)
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"" But, like me, Medved is a radio host whose show appeals primarily to conservatives and evangelicals, and his actions must be understood in light of these demographics. ""

Dr. Laura is Jewish, but her audience is mostly conservative Christians and evangelicals.

The USA loves our Jews Thank you VERY much.


4 posted on 02/09/2005 7:01:18 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell (Forgive Russia, Ignore Germany, Punish France - Condoleezza Rice)
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To: Alouette
STFU!!!!!

Are you a Christian? Sure can't tell by your post. You do your cause absolutely no good when you use language like that to claim the US as a Christian Nation.

For myself, I acknowledge that this is a nation founded largely by Christians and Deists, but was founded for everyone regardless of religious affiliation or lack thereof.

But your choice abbreviations is comical in juxtaposed with the ideals for which you attempt to defend.

5 posted on 02/09/2005 7:04:03 PM PST by Diverdogz
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To: Alouette
The United States isn't a 'Christian nation'. It is a non-sectarian constitutional republic, predominantly peopled by Christians, nominal and believing.
6 posted on 02/09/2005 7:05:51 PM PST by malakhi
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To: Alouette

Boteach is crude even for an LLL sellout. This diatribe does little more than conflate criticism of Jewish sellouts with hostility toward Jews in general. Does being Jewish require us to show solidarity with Hollywood degenerates, simply because they, too, are Jewish by some definitions?

It is honorable to examine the shortcomings of one's own, Boteach treats it as some sort of bigotry. On the contrary, in demanding absolute solidarity with other Jews (the apparent standard he sets), he is the one displaying bigotry.


7 posted on 02/09/2005 7:08:12 PM PST by atomic conspiracy (This message prepared with MS-CBS Word 72 software)
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To: Alouette

LOL

NOTE to interested non-Jews: If a Jewish pundit opines mostly in secular or Christian venues (i.e. The Jerusalem Post and CNN, or World Net Daily) it is a safe bet that said Jewish pundit does not speak for any significant number of Torah-observant Jews.


8 posted on 02/09/2005 7:11:17 PM PST by hlmencken3 ("...politics is a religion substitute for liberals and they can't stand the competition")
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To: Alouette

INTREP


9 posted on 02/09/2005 7:13:21 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Secularization of America is happening)
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To: malakhi; Diverdogz
The United States isn't a 'Christian nation'

This is a Christian nation which is an important factor as to why this nation is free and flourishes so much. That is why Lefties seek to de-Christianize this nation.

10 posted on 02/09/2005 7:25:07 PM PST by M 91 u2 K (Kahane was Right!)
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To: Diverdogz

Alouette is Jewish... and right on for telling the Schumley to stick it where the sun don't shine.


11 posted on 02/09/2005 7:27:17 PM PST by cyborg (Department of Homelife Security threat level is GREEN.)
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To: Alouette
But Jewish kids really should feel uncomfortable if they are compelled to sing Christian spirituals like "Silent Night" in order to be part of a school choir, just as surely as Christian children should feel uncomfortable if they are compelled to sing songs in a school choir about the greatness of the prophet Muhammad.

This crap is so stupid...I don't know where to begin!

12 posted on 02/09/2005 7:32:31 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: M 91 u2 K
This is a Christian nation

No, it isn't. It is a non-sectarian, constitutional republic.

13 posted on 02/09/2005 7:34:13 PM PST by malakhi
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To: Diverdogz; Alouette

<< Are you a Christian? Sure can't tell by your post. You do your cause absolutely no good when you use language like that to claim the US as a Christian Nation. >>

"Language like that?"

Language like what, pray tell?

What have you projected upon and so impugned poor Alouette with that you must chastise her so?

Go wash out your mind with soap!

Blessings -- Brian


14 posted on 02/09/2005 7:35:33 PM PST by Brian Allen (I fly and can therefore be envious of no man -- Per Adua Ad Astra!)
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To: malakhi

Yes it is we have a Judeo-Christian heritage.


15 posted on 02/09/2005 7:35:34 PM PST by M 91 u2 K (Kahane was Right!)
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To: Diverdogz

Alouette is Jewish. BTW, there would be no freedom in this country without Christians and Jews.

Atheists, Agnostics, Muslims, etc, add nothing of any value to our civilization or society. They tear it down.


16 posted on 02/09/2005 7:36:16 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: Diverdogz; cyborg; Alouette; SJackson; yonif; Happy2BMe; Simcha7; American in Israel; ...
Alouette is a close friend of mine, and models the fighting spirit of a new Jewish community in this world not willing to sit back and die under the boot of a hostile and sullen Jew hating world.

"Alouette is Jewish... and right on for telling the Schumley to stick it where the sun don't shine."

Indeed.







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Christian Supporters of Israel ping list,
please FR mail me. ~
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spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass. (Joshua 21:45)

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Warnings ~

17 posted on 02/09/2005 7:38:07 PM PST by Salem (FREE REPUBLIC - Fighting to win within the Arena of the War of Ideas! So get in the fight!)
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To: malakhi

LOL.

Close enough.


18 posted on 02/09/2005 7:39:06 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: M 91 u2 K
Yes it is we have a Judeo-Christian heritage.

The populace is predominantly Christian, both nominal and believing. But our nation itself is non-sectarian. There is no established church or religion.

19 posted on 02/09/2005 7:42:26 PM PST by malakhi
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To: Diverdogz; Alouette
If Alouette ain't Jewish he's sure fooled me.

I'm not Jewish, though I believe unreservedly in, try to live the Hebrew Bible and live as Jewish a life as I can.

Though he tends to yell too much, Shmuley may in fact be onto something regarding secular Jews. It's important to note that a secular Jew has given up the right to be considered chosen in carrying God to the world from indeed God's having chosen the Jews for that mission. A secular Jew in that sense is no more chosen than anyone else.

He also writes something else that I'd like to note: "Will we Jews forever consign Judaism to the status of a backwater religion?"

Unless and until Jews proselytize, yes.

As I noted, though I'm not Jewish, I try to proselytize Judaism in some way every day.

L'Chaim.

20 posted on 02/09/2005 7:48:41 PM PST by onedoug
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