WARNING: This is a high volume ping list
Posted on 02/08/2005 8:36:14 AM PST by SJackson
Sharon And Abbas Agree To End 'All Acts Of Violence'
SHARM EL-SHEIKH, Egypt, Feb. 8 (Xinhuanet) -- Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon on Tuesday declares to halt military action against the Palestinians after he agreed with Palestinian presidentMahmoud Abbas to a mutual ceasefire.
"During talks with Abbas, we agreed to stop over four years of violence. Israel will cease its military activities against all Palestinians anywhere," Sharon said at the close of the one-day summit in Egypt's Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh.
"Today we are moving toward goal of peaceful, dignified, quiet lives for all nations in the Middle East," Sharon said in a statement, while Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak, Jordanian King Abdullah II and Abbas were listening to.
"We hope that today we are starting a new period of hope," he added.
"I assure you that we have a genuine intention to respect your right to live independently and in dignity. Israel has no desire tocontinue to govern over you and control your fate," Sharon said, referring to the roadmap peace plan or a two-state solution to the conflict accepted by both the Palestinians and Israel.
He also urged all parties concerned not to allow violence to sabotage the new opportunity for achieving just and comprehensive peace.
"We in Israel have to painfully wake up from our dreams, and we're determined to overcome all the obstacles which might stand inour path in order to realize the new chance which we have created,"said Sharon. Enditem
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Hamas says not bound by Palestinian ceasefire
Radical movement spokesman says there will not be real truce with Israel without real reciprocity.
GAZA CITY - Palestinian Islamist militant movement Hamas said Tuesday that it was not bound by the ceasefire announced by Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas at a Middle East peace summit in Egypt.
Abbas's declaration "expresses only the position of the Palestinian Authority. It does not express the position of the Palestinian movements," said Hamas spokesman Mushir al-Masri.
In Beirut, Hamas spokesman Osama Hamdaneh said the ceasefire pledge "does not commit the Palestinian resistance."
Hamas, which has been behind many of the deadliest anti-Israeli attacks during the four-year Palestinian uprising, and other armed groups have nevertheless agreed to a temporary "cooling down" period.
At the summit in the Red Sea resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon agreed to ceasefires aimed at ending the deadly violence and paving the way for a revival of the Middle East peace process.
But Masri said the Palestinians should have been consulted before any such announcement.
"Hamas is maintaining its position. There will not be a real truce with Israel without real reciprocity," he said.
"We will act on the truce depending on the commitment by the Zionist enemy to meet our conditions, starting with all Palestinian prisoners."
Sharon announced at the summit that hundreds of Palestinian detainees would be released from Israeli jails, after a tentative agreement between negotiators for the release of some 900 prisoners.
1. Palestian leader agrees to end all violence.
2. Gets money from U.S.
3. Palestinian group sends out suicide murderers.
4. Palestinina president says we need more money to stop them.
5. Get more money from U.S.
6. More suicide murders
7. More money.
Here is a much better solution:
1. Dear Palestinian leader, you get no money from the U.S. until one year has passed with no suicide murders.
2. Palestinian leader says but how can we stop it with no money.
3. You want the money, you figure it out.
4. And as a little added incentive, if you don't stop it, every time there is a suicide murder by your people, we will double the monthly amount of money we give to Israel to stop your attacks.
The following is the text of the Friday sermon, February 4, 2005:
Preacher- Ibrahim Mudyris:
"We do not love any land more than the land of Palestine. Had the Jews not expelled us from it with their plains, their tanks, their weapons, their treachery around us, we would never leave you, Oh Palestine". (Quotes Muhammad who promised he would return to Mecca as a conqueror). "We tell you Palestine, we shall return to you, by Allah's will, We shall return to every village, every town, and every grain of earth which was quenched by the blood of our grandparents and the sweat of our fathers and mothers. We shall return, we shall return. Our willingness to return to the 1967 borders does not mean that we have given up on the land of Palestine. No! We ask you: Do we have the right to the 1967 borders? We have the right. Therefore, we shall realize this right with any mean it takes. We might be able to use diplomacy in order to return to the 1967 borders, but we shall not be able to use diplomacy in order to return to the 1948 borders. No one on this earth recognizes [out right to] the 1948 borders [before Israel's existence]. Therefore, we shall return to the 1967 borders, but it does not mean that we have given up on Jerusalem and Haifa, Jaffa, Lod, Ramla, Natanyah [Al-Zuhour] and Tel Aviv [Tel Al-Rabia]. Never.
We shall return to every village we had been expelled from, by Allah's will. Why? All the international laws deny the Palestinians their real borders. We might agree, but in the name of Allah, our grandfathers' blood demands that we return to them [the borders]. Your father's blood was shed there, at the villages, at Ashqelon, at Ashdod, at Hirbia [a village between Gaza and Ashqelon, where Kibbutz Zikim is located today] and at others places, hundreds of villages and towns. [Their blood] demands it from us, and it shall curse anyone who will concede a grain of earth of those villages. Our approval to return to the 1967 borders is not a concession for our other rights. No!... this generation might not achieve this stage, but generations will come, and the land of Palestine... will demand that the Palestinians will return the way Muhammad returned there, as a conqueror".
Hate to be a wet blanket, but we have been down this road many times in the last 30 years or so.
I'll believe it when I see it. In the meantime, I'm not holding my breath. The Pali vermin have broken every previous agreement and I see nothing to stop them from breaking this one.
Interesting. Did the CIA train the day job-terrorists with Israel's approval?
Of course, it was part of the Oslo agreement. I believe Israel has objected to the current CIA training though I suspect it will go ahead.
I think some of you miss the point entirely. This really is a good thing. Why? For the moment, however brief, Jewish lives will not be lost. Arab lives will not be lost. Abbas gets an opportunity to prove he is different.
Do I trust Abbas? No. Not at all. Do I trust Palestinian intentions? No. Not at all. Aside from the prisoner release (which is premature at best and stupidity at worst) Israel gave up nothing. Now the onus is on Abbas.
If, as I expect, this is only a brief respite, fine. People don't die for a little while. That's good. So long as the IDF is alert and ready and strong we lose nothing. Meanwhile the illusion of peace will help strengthen our economy.
If I am wrong and this really is meaningful, which I certainly hope and pray, then so much the better.
Hamas? Hizbullah? Islamic Jihad? Either Abbas will show he is a leader and stop all violence or he won't. Either he will take on these terror groups when the time comes or he won't. Israeli actions will be predicated on his actions.
In the meanwhile if no rockets fall on Sderot, if no mad suicide bombers blow up innocent people, if snipers don't shoot at Israeli civillians, these are all good things.
You may have a point. But there seem to have been too many "cease fires" over the years that stick like butter on a Teflon skillet. I suppose I've become jaded and cynical about the whole thing.
WARNING: This is a high volume ping list
Oh, this is great, because we all know how Palestinians stick by their word. There is no way that I will believe that those sickos will stop torturing the Israelis until I see it.
PA Television: How to Destroy Israel
18:47 Feb 08, '05 / 29 Shevat 5765
Though he reiterated his promise at today's Sharm el-Sheikh ceremony, Abu Mazen's prior commitment to halt incitement to violence and hatred on official PA TV was already violated this past Friday.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=76620
Gunfire Directed at IDF Position Near Har Bracha
22:00 Feb 08, '05 / 29 Shevat 5765
(IsraelNN.com) Terrorists earlier tonight fired at an IDF post in Shomron, near the town of Har Bracha. There were no injuries in the attack.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=76626
Arrest of Fatah Terrorist Prevented an Attack
21:00 Feb 08, '05 / 29 Shevat 5765
(IsraelNN.com) The arrest of a Fatah terrorist last night in a village north of Jenin prevented yet another terror attack. Military sources announced tonight that the terrorist in custody planned a bomb attack in the area. The terrorist and an assistant were both taken into custody and turned over to Shin Bet custody for interrogation.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=76622
Yeppers, sounds like a cease fire to me...
I think the fact this was on the official Palestinian TV station this friday decries your point: Our willingness to return to the 1967 borders does not mean that we have given up on the land of Palestine. No! We ask you: Do we have the right to the 1967 borders? We have the right. Therefore, we shall realize this right with any mean it takes. We might be able to use diplomacy in order to return to the 1967 borders, but we shall not be able to use diplomacy in order to return to the 1948 borders. No one on this earth recognizes [out right to] the 1948 borders [before Israel’s existence]. Therefore, we shall return to the 1967 borders, but it does not mean that we have given up on Jerusalem and Haifa, Jaffa, Lod, Ramla, Natanyah [Al-Zuhour] and Tel Aviv [Tel Al-Rabia]. Never.
They are plainly saying the diplomacy is just a ruse, and once they gain all they can by diplomacy, Israel will be destroyed by war. They land that was bought by the sacrifice of your Jewish ancestors is all too quickly thrown at the feet of your Historical killers for nothing but lies, damned lies and video tape. I also bet that mortars will land on Jewish homes within a week. Their lies, for Fifty Years have been used to fool you. Once fooled shame on them, 157,456 times fooled, shame on you.
Abbas gets an opportunity to prove he is different.
This is the exact same Abbas that helped set up the Munich Olympics Massacare, the Same Abbas that has been matsterminding terrorist attacks for decades. I think he has had plenty of time to prove how different he is. I think Israel should drop a 2000 pound bomb on his arse and delcare war, you guys have battered wife syndrome big time.
The cease fire is a good thing, but it's not an end in itself. There'll never be a long term solution unless the incitement ends and the terrorists are disarmed, and thus far there's little or no progress on either of those objectives.
I bet America, and the World pretends it did not happen, again, and praises (kisses) Abbas's abbas, again, making the Muslims laugh at our stupidity, again, in the longest standing joke of this Millennium.
Anybody, after 50 years of Terrorism against Jews, thinks the Arabs in Israel under the Palestinian Authority have any other purpose in their fruitless, horrible lives besides genocide and theft of Israel, is in total denial of reality. These Arabs have been killing Jews longer than the average person has been alive, and promising peace just as long. I cannot believe the world is so incredibly naive.
Well, if Hammas isn't bound by ceasefire, then they need to be prosecuted. If the Palestinian government isn't willing to do that, then there is no ceasefire.
"Real reciprocity" = Jews into sea
Zubeidi struggles to carry Abbas. (AP)
Zakaria Zubeidi (center of photo, with finger raised), the local leader of the Al Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, a terror group with ties to Abbas' ruling Fatah party. (AP)
Don't get me wrong. I am probably as cynical as you are. I have already said I believe this to be a brief respite and that I trust neither Abbas nor Palestinian intentions in general. I just believe not having innocent Jews die is always a good thing, period. I also see nothing wrong with giving Abbas an opportunity to prove me and everyone else who distrusts him to be wrong.
The main issue is not to make concessions until the Palestinians act in a way they have not in the past. We have made one: the prisoner release, which I called either premature or stupid.
I read your post and I tried to find where we disagree. I couldn't find it.
I said I don't trust Abbas. I said I don't trust Palestinian intentions, I believe, like you do, that this is a ruse to gain more concessions. I said we should give none until the Palestinians make some of their own. What part of that do you disagree with?
What I also said was that it is a very good thing if no Jews die because of Palestinian terrorism today.
We agree that there must be a solution, we just disagree on the solution. We also agree that the innocent should not be killed, you just think the guilty should not be deported. But you cannot own cats and canarys in the same home. If you try, one or the other must be caged. I do not think animals should be caged.
I also think you misunderstand me. I do not think the Arabs who were born here 50 years ago or their children should have to leave. Most of them you can live in peace with. It is the overwhelming flood of Jihadi who came from your enemies lands that you allow to stay here without visa's that is your problem. You drive your own people out of the country because of visa problems, you drive your own people from their homes because of politics, but you will not enforce the laws on murderers and killers sworn to the destruction of your home, your Nation and your race.
You will not grant visas to Christians, jewish or not, but you will grant freedom from visas to Islamic terrorists from Syria. Your own government is blackmailing the Christian organisations over here that are dedicated to feeding your olim, and fighting for your political rights, but then your own goverment is blackmailing your own people to give up land they bought from the Arabs, four generations ago for empty political points from your enemies.
Selective enforcement of law is the hallmark of Dictatorships and Corruption, and the present government of Israel is no exception. You have a few honest statesmen, and if your people do not rally behind them and defend them from the wolves eating the flock, they too will be destroyed.
Then it will take God to sort out the mess. By prophecy, that is exactly what will happen, at an incredible cost of life.
I feel you are an honest, though deluded man, and I respect your honesty. Cling to it, it will save you in the end.
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