Posted on 02/07/2005 9:05:30 AM PST by skellmeyer
NO.
Oh, didn't mean to offend... :-)
Good heavens, son, take two aspirins and go to bed. Anathema is NOT condemnation to hell. It's just an indication of incredibly erroneous thinking.
Let's ask the deacon.
Vatican I did no such thing. Neither did any other ecumenical council. If you're talking about the anathema Vatican I issued against those who deny the universal jurisdiction of the Pope, then you need to know: (1) an anathema is a formal excommunication, not a "condemnation to hell"; (2) as a canonical penalty, it applies only to Catholics. So what that means is that a Catholic who denies the universal jurisdiction of the Pope is formally excommunicated, or at least it did mean that until the penalty of anathema itself was abrogated in 1983.
It doesn't say anything about anyone else, because Protestants, while validly baptized, are outside Church law (see Ludwig Ott), though of course not outside natural law (because nobody is).
I mean, honestly, Harley, you Protestants believe some really crazy things about us. Pius IX, the Pope who called Vatican I, said flatly that nobody is condemned to hell apart from voluntary fault. If you're a Protestant because you think you're doing God's will, then that's not voluntary fault, is it?
And finally, what about those Protestants who say quite clearly that (a) Catholics aren't Christians; and (b) all non-Christians are going to hell. (By the way, I don't agree that Protestants aren't Christians, nor do I say that all non-Christians are going to hell. God saves those whom he chooses to save, period.) Are you going to take them to task?
Hey, talk to the early Christians, the ones trained by Christ and the apostles He appointed. The use of contraception is condemned by EVERY Christian throughout history. The first time you can find ANY Christian say it is something other than deadly sin is 1930, the Anglican Lambeth conference. If you want to fight every Christian who says your an idiot for using contraception, you've got a lot of fighting to do.
As for the ephebophilia/homosexuality scandal, so wow - you can find about 5% of Catholic priests who are doing what 85% of lay Christians are doing: acting out sexual deviancy. The major difference is only the choice of sex partners - you choose to act in a heterosexual contraceptive manner, they choose to act in a homosexual contraceptive manner. Either way, you're just masturbating inside of someone else, so how is this a point in your favor?
What has the Pope done to stop it? He has taught again and again that this evil will destroy the one who perpetrates it. And it has. Look at all those who act contraceptively, whether homosexually or heterosexually.
Well, keep them snakes quiet. I sing to 'em, but it's gotta be snakey songs, or they don't listen...
Thought you might enjoy this thread.
No.
Steven (addressing skellmeyer): Your comment is way out of line, gives scandal, and is a sin against charity. Stop it, because you are not doing anything to help God or his Church in any way, shape, or form. Repent, but first shut off your computer and just go away and pray about it until you settle down.
So, I guess you don't want to be saved then.
The first act of religion - and religion means "to bind back together" - was the Cross. If you refuse to engage in religion, that means you refuse the Cross. How do you figure you are associating with Jesus that way?
For an essay on what "religion" means, as opposed to what Protestants don't understand, try http://bridegroompress.com/catalog/article_info.php?articles_id=7
"Mr. Wiggles" is shore sweet on Saint Francis of Assisi.
Now, read that sentence carefully and slowly.
As a Christian, would you say that if someone prayerfully came to the conviction that the Catholic was made necessary by God through Jesus Christ, but would choose to disobey what they had concluded was the objective will of God in order to do something else because they wanted it more than they wanted to do the will of God ... would you say that such a person can be saved?
And what does that have to do with Protestants? Do many Protestants sincerely believe that becoming Catholic is necessary for their salvation, yet refuse to do so?
You know, I really wish some people would consider that God is truth and truth is charity. We are to model ourselves on Christ, the one who said, "I came not to bring peace, but the sword" and "set mother against daughter and father against son." Remember Christ? "You brood of vipers! Who told YOU you could escape the coming destruction!"
How about when He called the Syro-Phoenician woman a dog for daring to ask for healing grace for her daughter? He healed her anyway, but only because Mom admitted that she was a dog compared to the Jews. "The dogs still get the scraps from the table."
So, since when does the truth give scandal? Are you saying contraception does NOT make women into prostitutes, fleshy masturbation bags for men? Because Castii Conubii and Humanae Vitae both say essentially this. Are you saying contraception is NOT an abortifacient? Because even a glance at a Physician's Desk Reference says they are.
Why is it polite to let people die in their sins?
No, but any "Christian" who insults my wife by calling her a whore is going to require medical assistance when I'm through with him.
As for the ephebophilia/homosexuality scandal, so wow - you can find about 5% of Catholic priests who are doing what 85% of lay Christians are doing: acting out sexual deviancy.
No, I can point out that not only did a certain percentage of Catholic priests act in this manner, but that significant portions of the Church hierarchy protected them and did nothing to get rid of the priests who victimized the innocent.
The major difference is only the choice of sex partners - you choose to act in a heterosexual contraceptive manner, they choose to act in a homosexual contraceptive manner. Either way, you're just masturbating inside of someone else, so how is this a point in your favor?
Well, unlike the priests we're talking about, I've never raped a little boy. Nor have I ever aided and abetted another in doing so.
If you can't see the moral difference between using contraception and raping an altar boy, all I have to say to you is "Shh!! The adults are talking here."
What has the Pope done to stop it? He has taught again and again that this evil will destroy the one who perpetrates it. And it has. Look at all those who act contraceptively, whether homosexually or heterosexually
That's it? The RCC hierarchy aids and abets the rape of little children and all the Pope can do is sternly wag his finger?
Well, bless his little heart! That's the kind of snake who would sit right down with them fishes and listen real quiet to the Gospel, even if every one of the townspeople had kicked old Frank in the head for speakin' the truth to 'em. He don't sound like one of them snakes what would sneak up on a bird while Francis is talking and go filch their eggs.
I allu's had to watch them snakes around the chickens, 'cause they was allu's suckin' eggs.
Thank you for your reply!
Well, then stop insulting your wife by using contraceptives. You're the one whose demeaning her by treating her as if her fertility was a disease that needs medical treatment, so disgusting you have to wear rubber before you'll touch her.
No, I can point out that not only did a certain percentage of Catholic priests act in this manner, but that significant portions of the Church hierarchy protected them and did nothing to get rid of the priests who victimized the innocent.
Dude, I can do better than that. I'm writing a book showing that the American bishops taught American Catholics how to use contraceptives through the way they treated us since Vatican I. Again, so what? You want to claim that the Orthodox are better because your bishops are more consistently asses than ours by supporting divorce and contraception actively instead of just passively?
If you can't see the moral difference between using contraception and raping an altar boy, all I have to say to you is "Shh!! The adults are talking here."
If you can't see that using contraception and raping little boys are both mortal sins, then all I have to say is "I'll be quiet - I hate to interrupt pagans in conversation."
Bookmark to read later
Have a cite? It'd be news to the Dave Hunt (spit!) crowd.
Protestants, while validly baptized, are outside Church law (see Ludwig Ott), though of course not outside natural law (because nobody is).
Allow me to see if I understand this. Protestants, if they have proper, Trinitarian baptism (either as an confessing adult or an infant?) are not bound by Catholic church law? Is that sort of like, as a member of a Bible Presbyterian church, I am bound by covenant to submit to the elders and pastors there, but I am not bound, say, by the local Baptist church down the road?
In other words, the Catholic church recognizes denominationalism? That made me sit up, because it was so contrary to what I had heard.
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