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To: HarleyD
Especially as long as the RCC condemns everyone to Hell who is not a Catholic (according to Vatican I).

Vatican I did no such thing. Neither did any other ecumenical council. If you're talking about the anathema Vatican I issued against those who deny the universal jurisdiction of the Pope, then you need to know: (1) an anathema is a formal excommunication, not a "condemnation to hell"; (2) as a canonical penalty, it applies only to Catholics. So what that means is that a Catholic who denies the universal jurisdiction of the Pope is formally excommunicated, or at least it did mean that until the penalty of anathema itself was abrogated in 1983.

It doesn't say anything about anyone else, because Protestants, while validly baptized, are outside Church law (see Ludwig Ott), though of course not outside natural law (because nobody is).

I mean, honestly, Harley, you Protestants believe some really crazy things about us. Pius IX, the Pope who called Vatican I, said flatly that nobody is condemned to hell apart from voluntary fault. If you're a Protestant because you think you're doing God's will, then that's not voluntary fault, is it?

And finally, what about those Protestants who say quite clearly that (a) Catholics aren't Christians; and (b) all non-Christians are going to hell. (By the way, I don't agree that Protestants aren't Christians, nor do I say that all non-Christians are going to hell. God saves those whom he chooses to save, period.) Are you going to take them to task?

86 posted on 02/07/2005 12:33:59 PM PST by Campion
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To: Campion; HarleyD
(1) an anathema is a formal excommunication, not a "condemnation to hell"; (2) as a canonical penalty, it applies only to Catholics. So what that means is that a Catholic who denies the universal jurisdiction of the Pope is formally excommunicated, or at least it did mean that until the penalty of anathema itself was abrogated in 1983.

Have a cite? It'd be news to the Dave Hunt (spit!) crowd.

Protestants, while validly baptized, are outside Church law (see Ludwig Ott), though of course not outside natural law (because nobody is).

Allow me to see if I understand this. Protestants, if they have proper, Trinitarian baptism (either as an confessing adult or an infant?) are not bound by Catholic church law? Is that sort of like, as a member of a Bible Presbyterian church, I am bound by covenant to submit to the elders and pastors there, but I am not bound, say, by the local Baptist church down the road?

In other words, the Catholic church recognizes denominationalism? That made me sit up, because it was so contrary to what I had heard.

100 posted on 02/07/2005 12:55:31 PM PST by jude24 ("To go against conscience is neither right nor safe." - Martin Luther)
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To: Campion; skellmeyer; Modernman
Champion-”I mean, honestly, Harley, you Protestants believe some really crazy things about us.”

skellmeyer-”And as long as you refuse the power of [the Pope's] words, your wives will be prostitutes and your children corpses.”

Is it any wonder???

101 posted on 02/07/2005 12:56:19 PM PST by HarleyD
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