This thread is so... weird.
Posted on 02/05/2005 7:44:02 PM PST by raccoonradio
Crazed right-wing moralists, take note: Before SpongeBob, there was Snagglepuss ... and Huckleberry Hound ... and even Popeye.
Recent events in the world of animated children's shows have caused people to question whether the cartoon industry is promoting a homosexual agenda. Allegations have been directed at SpongeBob SquarePants for participating in a pro-gay video, and at Buster the Bunny for his fraternization with a lesbian couple and their children. While some have dismissed these allegations as the rantings of ultraconservative Christians, gay cartoon characters do in fact exist, and some of them are even politically active. I recently asked some of them to share their stories.
Sitting in the living room of his well-appointed Cape Cod-style home, a cultural icon recalls his heyday with sadness and regret. "I was in constant fear of being found out," says Popeye, sipping herbal tea. "I thought once I cast Olive Oyl, everyone would know. She was so tall and lanky, with that boyish figure ..."
He trails off, shaking his head. "If you want to know the truth, I picked her because she reminded me of someone." He smiles and looks wistful. "Ensign Robert Flynn. Some of my fondest memories of the Navy revolve around him."
Popeye the Sailor Man, the animated embodiment of testosterone, lived in terror of being outed, as it would have ended his lucrative career. "Bluto threatened me with that a couple of times," he confesses. "I always wondered about him, though. He was so hypermasculine, always swaggering around like he had something to prove." He sighs and leans back against the antique sofa. "Maybe I'm just projecting, though. I did a fair amount of macho posturing myself."
First making the scene in 1929 as a bit player in a comic strip, Popeye became an immediate success. The series was finally renamed for him, and movies followed. In the '30s, Popeye's films were even more popular than Mickey Mouse's.
"Even though we were rivals, Mickey was one of the few people who were nice to me after learning I was gay," Popeye says.
"You know, people don't realize how different it was back then," he continues. "It wasn't like today, where only a few religious nuts get upset and boycott your work. My whole life would've been ruined if I'd come out. I had no choice."
Popeye stops and stares at the floor for a moment. "But still," he almost whispers, "every time I said 'I yam what I yam,' I felt like a fraud."
Reluctant to say more, Popeye tells me to check out the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Cartoon Alliance. He says the group helped him immensely when he finally decided to come out as gay after being brutally caricatured on-screen by Robin Williams.
Three days later, I'm in the parlor of a lovely San Francisco townhouse, being entertained by a self-described "proud queer, an old queen, ev-en!"
"I can't believe America didn't know," says Snagglepuss. "I mean, the cuff links, the flamboyance, the theater jargon -- plus, I'm pink, for heaven's sake!"
"I think it's terrific what SpongeBob is doing," he declares as he accepts a white wine spritzer from longtime companion Huckleberry Hound. "I've heard rumors about Squidward, too." Snagglepuss looks at his partner. "Two out and proud gays on one show, wouldn't that be fabulous?!"
The more reserved Huckleberry shakes his head. "I just wish it wasn't such a big deal. It would be nice if they'd leave his private life out of it and just allow him to be the amorphous asexual blob that he was drawn to be."
"I had a much different Hollywood experience than Puss," he continues. "The producers were looking for someone to host a show, to be a major player. They didn't care that I was gay, but this was 1959, and they didn't want any speculation about me." He sits down on the end of the chaise longue and puts his hand on Snagglepuss' leg. "They liked my look, but I sounded very effeminate."
"Luckily, he could do wonderful impressions," Snagglepuss chimes in. "They just fell in love with his Andy Griffith!" Snagglepuss grins. "Guess how we met. I was a guest on his show and then got my own segment. It was love at first sight."
"We were well known among industry players after that," Huckleberry says, looking sheepish. "I'm a homebody, but Puss always wanted to be out at all the parties."
His sociability proved fortuitous. Snagglepuss and Huckleberry soon became confidants of other prominent cartoon characters struggling with their homosexuality. And what started as an informal support group slowly morphed into a political action network.
"During the mid-'70s, the public became more aware of just how many celebrities were gay," explains Snagglepuss, turning serious. "Well, that included us, and people began speculating about cartoons the same way they did about human actors."
"The ironic thing is, they were wrong about one of the first gay icons," he adds. "There was always a lot of talk about Velma, but she's strictly hetero."
"That's true," agrees Huckleberry. "And a militant feminist. She carried around a dog-eared copy of 'The Second Sex' and refused to dumb herself down for the cameras. That's how the rumor got started."
"Even we believed it," Snagglepuss admits. "But then Daphne, who's actually bi, told me that she'd tried to get Velma to 'experiment' a couple times, but she wasn't interested. Velma's always been supportive of our cause."
"Everyone including Scooby-Doo has been supportive," he continues. "I guess once ... apparently, Fred and Shaggy both had a lot of Scooby snacks, and, well, one thing led to another ..."
"Let's just say it changed their perspectives," concludes Huckleberry. He looks at Snagglepuss. "We can leave it at that."
Asked which characters are members of the LGBT Cartoon Alliance, Snagglepuss runs off some names: Jabberjaw, Auggie Doggie, Mr. Slate of "The Flintstones," Elmer Fudd, Pepé Le Pew ("He's what's now called pan-sexual," says Snagglepuss), everyone in "Josie and the Pussycats," all three members of "The Hair Bear Bunch," several Smurfs, and Gargamel, and Foghorn Leghorn.
"That last one surprised even us," Huckleberry says. "And Bugs Bunny hasn't officially joined, but he has been to a few meetings." He divulges, "He had to dress up as a woman a lot on the show, and then found himself doing it off-screen."
Snagglepuss adds, "Of course, he could just be a straight cross-dresser, but he enjoys flirting with men. You may have noticed that he kissed a lot of male co-stars on his show, too." Huckleberry nods. "He's still trying to figure himself out."
Though both admit to some progress for gay cartoon characters, they're worried about the future. The increasing influence of the religious right and the passage of state laws banning gay marriage have Snagglepuss rallying the troops for the battles they may face in the next four years.
"I guess the most significant thing is that we've reached out to the puppet community," says Snagglepuss. "It's an important alliance. Tinky Winky weathered the storm, Bert and Ernie are still going strong after all these years, and Big Bird and Snuffleupagus just announced their engagement. Except for the hullabaloo about Buster the Bunny's human friends, PBS has been very supportive."
Huckleberry is less optimistic. "I just don't know what these next few years are going to bring. I'm concerned, very concerned." He shakes his head. "If these people knew what it used to be like for us they wouldn't force us to deny who we are. They'd have some compassion."
Snagglepuss puts his arm around the man he calls his husband. "They're only human beings," he says gently. "They just don't have the kind of depth that we do."
You tell me I'm barking up the wrong tree, then you procede to say what I've been saying all along. I'm sick of dealing with you idiots who still think this is about homosexual cartoon characters. As I said in a post last night, I expect that kind of stupidity from liberals, but I'm very disappointed in some of my fellow Freepers.
I am not singling out cartoon characters, or accusing cartoon characters of being gay. I am not saying tolerance is a bad thing. I am saying the teaching materials that were posted on the We Are Family Foundation website, that they intended to provide to the schools along with the video, are bad. There is a world of difference between tolerance, and teaching five year old children that it's good to let strangers touch their bodies. The lesson plan teaches them that it's bigoted to refuse to let someone touch them, just because that person's sexual orientation is different from the child's. The lesson plan for older kids teaches them that they should explore their views on homosexuality, to the extent of experimenting with it.
Read the documents before you make any more false statements about what I and others are saying.
I think you may have something there. Throughout my adult life I've known homosexuals and bisexuals who were/are my coworkers, friends, and relatives. Only one of them (a former coworker) has been an active part of the homosexual agenda. Our gay and lesbian coworkers didn't like him any better than I did. They just wanted to live their lives in peace, without throwing their sex lives up in everyone's faces. I'm not betraying any of my friends by opposing the recruiting of children into the homosexual lifestyle. Anyone who thinks their friends would be hurt or offended by that, might wish to consider choosing new friends.
At which of my previous posts did I single out a CARTOON character? I didn't; YOU did.
You wanted specifics concerning my claims that hundreds of FReepers' have blithe attitudes concerning the homosexual agenda with children because you don't THINK that's true. All I said was that because THIS SALON ARTICLE'S INTENT is to continue ridiculing Dr. Dobson, I would stay ON TOPIC from which to provide you examples. Why did you twist that into "singling out a cartoon character"?
You were provided examples to see the WILFULL IGNORANCE of FREEPERS CONCERNING THE PRO-HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA: 4 threads totaling 1,682 posts from which to peruse. That would give you a gist of those blithe attitudes for yourself.
Beside the 4 threads I gave you from which to read, scripter gave you 25 more to educate yourself concerning the homosexual agenda and the We Are Family Foundation (WAFF). In addition to the 4 I provided, at least 17 that specter provided also deals with factual information concerning ACTUAL curriculum being used in classrooms (with links to dozens more), exposing the WAFF's lies and agenda (with links to dozens of links now deleted/removed from the WAFF after Dr. Dobson and the American Family Association criticized and exposed WAFF), and Dr. Dobson's clarification about what he ACTUALLY said vs. what the MEDIA CLAIMS HE SAID.....if spectre's 25 threads were too much reading, couldn't you have at least read through the entire 4 example threads I provided?
Did you read any of the posts concerning the curriculum?
DID YOU EVEN LOOK AT THE CURRICULUM?
There is a sample page of "Writing for Change" (curriculum being used in school) provided as a .jpg on two threads, so you didn't even have to do "extra work" by going to the links provided offsite if you didn't want to just "take our word for it" that the curriculum is encouraging young children to think about and experiment with homosexual behavior...."because homosexuality is as 'good' as or 'the same as' heterosexuality".....
Did you read anything about the We Are Family Foundation, the organization behind this video, and what their stated claims are vs. what the truth is? That despite their claims to the contrary, they do promote pro-homosexuality in the classroom and with children?
Did you go to links provided on the threads that were saved (via google cache and the wayback machine) from the WAFF website that exposes their LIES about their agenda? Or did you just look at the cartoons because it would be too much of an effort to actually educate yourself?
YOU, Sivad, by your own words, have shown yourself to be yet another example of those FReepers who wish to remain WILFULLY IGNORANT and make blithe and/or derogatory remarks about those who are concerned about what is going on: there is a homosexual agenda which is targeting school children, to the detriment of those children.
bykrbayb said it best (POST 181):
You tell me I'm barking up the wrong tree, then you procede to say what I've been saying all along. I'm sick of dealing with you idiots who still think this is about homosexual cartoon characters.....Read the documents before you make any more false statements about what I and others are saying.
Perhaps you're just not paying attention... That has to be one of the most pathetic responses I have read in a long time. Because you can't, I won't ask you to point out an instance of us going after a single cartoon character. That's the whole point of what we're saying.
And if you can't see that, you're either incapable of comprehending simple English, you're playing games, or you're not paying attention.
It's not about cartoon characters, it's not about tolerance or intolerance, it's about indoctrination and desensitization of young children in regards to the homosexual lifestyle via the teachers guide.
When you misrepresent the arguments of others you are engaging in behavior not unlike a disruptor.
For those homosexuals that just want to be left alone... while I completely disagree with their lifestyle, they are free to live their life as they want, and they are free to pay the severe health consequences of that life.
Heckel and Jeckyl were two "bruthas on da Down Law" well before their time.
You just don't know how close to the truth you are on this one. When Heckel and Jeckyl were first introduced, Jeckyl was portrayed as being female, then all of a sudden they were both male
I have been noticing from time to time when this subject has come up that many have thought of this as ridiculous, but it's true many of these characters are being used to normalize homosexuality to children. Disney even has a cartoon(The Proud Family) where there is an outright homosexual character displayed. The character is a boy whose name is Michael. Now it is never said that he is gay; however, he always wears lilac colored leotards, is very girlfriendish(if you know what I mean) and longs to be a hairdresser. Another thing I've noticed is how the girls on many of these shows are more masculine than the boys.
This is shattering news. Of course, it always seemed odd that Popeye would go for Olive. Betty Boop I could see but Olive was hideous now that I think about it an obvious beard.
This thread is so... weird.
Ridiculing nonsense which makes conservatives look stupid is the point of the article and it does an excellent job of it.
Obviously, you're another poster who hasn't taken the time to READ any of the curriculum or links regarding WAFF, or any posts on those threads (unless it's pictures, of course), or you wouldn't be saying that propagandizing children into a homosexual lifestyle is nonsense.
Most of those concerns are legitimate and are undermined and trivialized by the scare scenarios being raised by some. THAT is my worry.
As to the desires of the activists' sites they have NOT been widely implemented nor will they be in most school systems in the country. Those who are claiming that they are are the ignorant, ones not I. They are confusing Massachusetts with the United States when in no way are they identical.
And please stop lying about what I have said. It isn't polite.
Me: Making fun of Dr. Dobson was the point of this article. Ridiculing those who voice their real concerns about real events only enables and emboldens the homosexuals.
You: Ridiculing nonsense which makes conservatives look stupid is the point of the article and it does an excellent job of it.
Me: Obviously, you're another poster who hasn't taken the time to READ any of the curriculum or links regarding WAFF, or any posts on those threads (unless it's pictures, of course), or you wouldn't be saying that propagandizing children into a homosexual lifestyle is nonsense.
I stand by my above comment about what you said; you obviously haven't read any of the information provided concerning this specific attack by salon against Dr. Dobson. You believe that what Dr. Dobson said (not what the media CLAIMS he said) is nonsense and this article is justifiable criticism of him and others, like me.
The media has done its job with you and many others. They turned what Dr. Dobson said into something else altogether. The media twisted it INTO SOMETHING RIDICULOUS. The media knew that most people wouldn't bother to take the time to verify what they said, or bother reading or learning the truth (gee what a surprise), so, attacking the messenger via ridicule is a great way to silence the truth. And you bought it, hook, line, and sinker.
Had YOU taken the time to READ the curriculum that has already been in schools THROUGHOUT the U.S., gone to We Are Family Foundations's website, learned what their agenda actually is vs. what they CLAIM it is (this can easily be done on your own, however, numerous links are provided above to direct you to specifics regarding We Are Family Foundation), you would not have justified ridiculing those who claim that homosexuals are propagandizing children into a homosexual lifestyle as nonsense. And that is what you said.
This material was slated to be sent to 61,000 elementary schools, and who knows how many middle and high schools.
What exactly would you consider "widely implemented?" Even if they had scrapped their plans to send this to middle schools and high schools, but went ahead with their plan to send this to 61,000 elementary schools, that's quite a few schools. How many classrooms do think are in the average elementary school? I have no idea, but since they have seven grades including kindergarten, let's say it's an average of seven classes per school. (It's probably more when you consider they rarely have more than one grade per room, and they usually have more than one room per grade, but let's go on the low side.) That's 427,000 classrooms. Any idea what the average class size is? I'm guessing about 30, but I'll be conservative again and drop it to 25. That's 10,675,000 students. What percentage of the teachers do you think would show a cartoon without a lesson plan? I don't know how much has changed since my son was in elementary school, but he never saw a film without a lesson plan. How do I know this? It's called parenting. Well, for the sake of argument, let's say times have changed so much half of the teachers no longer use lesson plans. That's only 5,337,500 little kids who are going to be told they're bad if they don't allow someone with a different sexual orientation from their own to touch them.
So I must ask you again, what exactly would you consider "widely implemented?"
How do the numbers I used look to y'all? I tried to go as low as possible to avoid being accused of inflating the numbers. I'll probably be attacked for making up the numbers. Some idoit(s) will conveniently overlook the fact that I was openly estimating the number of children to put it into into context. Anybody care to make predictions about the upcoming attack against me?
If they bother reading this post before attacking, the attack will be related to my use of the words "y'all" and "idoits."
Holy Crap! Did Deans head explode that time?
SPIDERMAN is NOT GAY!!! Take it back!!
No that is NOT what I said. Most of your post is just stuff you made up NOT what I have said. You complain that I haven't read something then proceed to write falsehoods about what I actually said which indicates you haven't read what I wrote. Dobson would have been better served by keeping his mouth shut about this nonsense since it really has nothing to do with the cartoon itself.
There is nothing in Sponge Bob which furthers the gay agenda: no characters, no story lines, nothing. And the fact that gays allegedly like the show means nothing.
Only idiots believe that any man would get away with touching children's genitals in a public school ANYWHERE in the country and it is irrelevent what is suggested on websites put up by the deviants. Should a teacher try something like that they would be in hot water immediately and even the union would not be supporting him.
You clearly have no idea of what is REALLY in curriculums across the land and until you actually do your opinion is of no value in this regard. You are confusing INTENTIONS of these groups with ACTUAL teachings. You are also confusing private opinions with official declarations. There is NO uniform National curriculum and WTF has NO power to impose one or do any more than you or I and can only SUGGEST certain things be taught. LOCAL school boards make those decisions and they are composed of our neighbors not Leftist Perverted infiltrators.
Even those composed of RAT creeps such as here in Chicago don't try and push this crap.
Unless I'm missing something somewhere, your numbers seem conservative.
This material could be sent to EVERY school but that does not mean it becomes part of ANY school's curriculum. Private organizations can send ANY school just about ANYTHING but that is a far cry from having it become part of real curriculums. Just how do you believe school curriculums are decided upon?
Should we remain concerned and wary of these perverts' aims? Yes!! Should we make comments which allow that concern to easily be made laughable and and have its legitimacy undermined? NO and I am afraid that is what has happened here.
When Freepers laugh at this article your tag team partner sees that as evidence of massive freeper indifference to the threat from the gay agenda. Nothing could be further from the truth. ONLY here will you find as much concern as there is anywhere in the country or more.
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