Posted on 01/31/2005 8:17:49 PM PST by newgeezer
NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - The head of Nissan Motor Co., breaking ranks with some of his leading rivals, said on Saturday that building fuel-sipping hybrid vehicles makes little sense in today's world because of their high costs.
"They make a nice story, but they're not a good business story yet because the value is lower than their costs," said Nissan Chief Executive Carlos Ghosn.
Nissan will, in fact, start manufacturing a gas-electric hybrid version of its Altima sedan for the U.S. market in 2006.
But Ghosn said the model was only intended to help Japan's second-largest automaker comply with strict fuel economy and emissions standards in states like California, not because he expects it to be a money-maker.
Nissan will license some technology for the hybrid Altima from Toyota Motor Corp., which is the world leader in hybrid production along with Honda Motor Co. Ltd.
The hybrids made by Toyota and Honda are in high demand, but production levels are still relatively small.
Toyota plans to nearly double production of its hybrid Prius car for the U.S. market this year, with production totaling some 100,000 vehicles.
Ford Motor Co. is alone among U.S. automakers in producing mass-market hybrid models; Ford recently announced plans to introduce four new models between this year and 2008.
Ghosn's comments, which are likely to draw criticism from environmental groups, came in an address to the National Automobile Dealers Association, which opened its annual convention in New Orleans on Saturday.
In his speech, he noted that only about 88,000 of the 16.9 million light vehicles sold in the United States last year were hybrids, adding that they are still considered "niche" products and something way outside the automotive mainstream.
He also poured cold water on hydrogen fuel cell vehicles, which many automakers see as the industry's next big technological breakthrough.
"The cost to build one fuel cell car is about $800,000. Do the math and you figure out that we will have to reduce the cost of that car by more than 95 percent in order to gain widespread marketplace acceptance," Ghosn said.
Ghosn, who is credited with a dramatic turnaround at Nissan, is poised to take over as chief executive at France's Renault SA in May.
His future role, simultaneously running operations at two major automakers, is thought to be an industry first.
Nissan -- owned 44 percent by Renault -- scored the biggest sales jump of any major car maker in the United States last year, with a 24 percent surge to 986,000 vehicles.
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Nope. Are you?
It's not a matter of being stupid. The fuel economy tests are mandated by law and the testing methodology is published in the Federal Record. They can't decide to apply one test to one type of vehicle and another to another, because the selection of testing methodology is not their perogative. The test was designed to be apples-to-apples, but the auto companies figured out how to defeat the test, and designed the new generation of hybrid cars accordingly.
Congress should mandate a new test for hybrid vehicles that eliminates their artificial advantage, but that is a political football. Can you imagine the hue and cry if Congress introduced a measure that would have the effect of reducing the attractiveness of hybrids, the new darlings of the environmental movement?
Note that in other countries, where this test is not used, hybrid cars are nearly nonexistant. In Europe, where gasoline is $5.00 a gallon, the trend is toward lighter cars that burn efficiently. Only in America is the trend toward heavier, more complicated cars with all this hybrid hoo-hah.
Thus the tag-line...
The Steam Engine was replaced by a hybrid vehicle 60 years ago. Can you guess why Hybrids found a home on the tracks and not the roads?
Do the math on the price of a Toyota Corolla vs Prius. Then calculate the price diffence against the small amount of milage you gain with the Prius.
It would take you 20 years to recoup the difference.
I've owned 4 american cars, the only one that didn't make 250K was a Chevy Chevette (read Isuzu).
I knew there was a reason I like Nissans, smart management not driving up the cost of useful cars with useless projects.
Forget currency float, what happens when the Chinese laborers once again prove themselves to be not good enough to make things with low error tolerance and Toyota winds up with thousands of busted hybrids on their hands? Given the quality of goods coming out of China, and the problems they've had with high tech stuff in the recent past, I have serious doubts they'll pull this one off, unless Toyota's plant is so automated the only personel are janitors.
Because in a locomotive, there are times when you need huge amounts of torque -- pulling a mile long train up a hill for instance. A combustion engine has to be sized to a torque load, and a combustion engine sized to maximum torque is just plain wasted mass, space, and cost most of the time. Fuel economy scales directly with displacement.
With hybrids, you can size the combustion engine to the average, and let batteries plus electric motors handle the peaks. This works splendidly in locomotives because there is a huge difference in the torque needed to pull up a hill and maintain speed on level ground.
Hybrids, aren't needed on the roads because there isn't that much difference between the peak torque and average needed. Small cars have already been sizing engines' peak torque close to the average. The mass of the batteries and motors completely eclipse any combustion engine mass/volume savings. And automobile engines are already very small and relatively efficient.
"...unless Toyota's plant is so automated the only personel are janitors."
Once they're that automated, cheap chinese labor is meaningless.
Whatever rationale they might try to sell, people drive a Prius for the same, simple reason a lot of people drive whatever they drive; they're trying to impress someone. "Look at me, I'm green!"
They're not much different than those whose cars say, "Look at me, covet this!" or, "Look at me, mine's bigger'n yours!" Just a different target audience.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. Freedom of choice is a good thing.
The best reason for driving a prius, imo is the same as the best reason for driving a Dodge Magnum...Torque.
Acceleration is fun, but I'd rather not look gay.
I'd almost forgotten the 'shovette.'
These phonies that lease a new car every two years to "keep up appearances" have no idea how well built american cars always have been. I kept my 65 mustang for nine years of wild post-adolescent indulgence, and replaced the 271 HP engine at about 300,000 miles because it sounded 'loose.' I gave it to one of my neighbors who installed it in a tow truck and ran it for another 100,000 miles.
Chevy's monument to outsourcing, the Chevette, lasted 65K miles. It was literally built to be disposable. Worst $800.00 I've ever spent. Should have blown it all on beer.
He is right, but he is wrong.
In the 2000's we own a Mustang GT and a Toyota. Guess which one has had the maintenance and which has not!
And then there is the "new car syndrome". My jeep had to have four trips to the shop to finally get the electric door locks working and my Mustang had to have three trips to get the clutch to stop squealing.
Not sure what you mean by that. As far as I know, the Chevette (circa 1975-1982) was designed and built in the USA. Are you saying it was rebadged as an Isuzu for export?
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