Ben Stein: Wal-Mart

Ben Stein ^ | 01/09/2005 | Ben Stein

[Former Military Chick]

Here’s a shocker. I love Wal-Mart. I know it’s almost always on the receiving end of bad press. It ruins neighborhoods. It puts small businesses out of business. It wrecks the balance of trade. It pays its workers poorly and treats them mean. It makes overseas workers into slaves. That's what the news says. The truth is that Wal-Mart is a major blessing for most Americans who live close enough to one to shop there and for the people who work at them. My smart friend C.L. Werner in Omaha made the point really clearly. When a Wal-Mart opens in a town, he said, it's as if everyone in the town got a raise. That's because the stuff at Wal-Mart is so much cheaper than that same merchandise was anywhere else. This is not a trivial thing. Now, don't get me wrong. Target and Sears and K-Mart and J.C. Penney and Brooks Brothers also sell good stuff usually at bargain prices, but they do not have the same reach of stores, the same astounding prices that Wal-Mart offers every day. This makes the people who shop there richer. Price matters a lot to most people. I am sure Wal-Mart is stiff competition for the stores and supermarkets across America. I feel bad for the people who lose their stores because of Wal-Mart. But not everyone is a store owner. Everyone is a consumer, and Wal-Mart is about as good a friend as the consumer ever had.Is Wal-Mart ruining the balance of trade? Well, let me put it like this: I buy American whenever I can find it.

But there are a lot of things that are just not usually made in the USA any longer. Toasters. Hot pots. Color televisions. Underwear. Since the goods are almost always made overseas, why not buy them at the best possible price? By the way, if someone knows of a good American made toaster, please stand up and shout.

Is Wal-Mart wrecking small towns? Not the ones I see, which are mostly in North Idaho. Those towns are booming. And the closest you get to a town square is the Wal-Mart, where neighbors visit with neighbors in the aisles all day and all night, in air conditioning, out of the rain.

Is Wal-Mart impoverishing third world workers in sweat shops? Heck, no. Conditions in those places are far from ideal. But they are far better than working on the farm or begging in the streets or selling themselves into prostitution or whatever they were doing before they came to work for foreign suppliers of US stores. The gains in prosperity in the developing countries because their people can sell to America through Wal-Mart are astounding. As to the people who work at Wal-Mart, they seem to me to be bright, alert men and women who work there because it's the best they can do in their town or at their age. Plus, they seem happy. The usual clerk at Wal-Mart gives a lot better service than the clerk at Tiffany. I would like it if they were paid more, but they are in a competitive labor market. And what about those greedy stockholders? A lot of them are those same Wal-Mart clerks, many of whom got rich from their stock.

In the real world, Wal-Mart is as much of a boon to the American shopper as the Sears catalogue was long ago.

Jeer at it all you want, all you cool people, but, it's progress, big time.

[TChris]

I do find Free Republic to be one of the more poorly designed sites of its kind of the Web; indeed, there is probably no site this popular that is this badly constructed.

I have to disagree with you here. Free Republic is able to handle such a huge load and yet exist on purely voluntary donations in part because of its design. The lightweight, straight HTML nature of Free Republic makes it very fast. I and many others appreciate a site designer that promotes performance over appearance. (Hey, that's a pretty good description of a conservative, isn't it? One who prefers performance above appearance.)

Anyway, kudos to JimRob! :-)-

[nomoranger]

I don't know who you have been talking to, but everything you said about Wal-mart is not true.
I've been with Wal-Mart 13 years and am still hourly. I can honestly say that I make more than most Asst Mgrs.
As for working off the clock, it ain't going to happen unless your management team is too stupid to try and do it.
Wal-Mart's health care may not pay for every Dr. visit, but it is meant to be for major illness or injury, not band-aid fixes. Name me another company that does not have a cap on claims. Wal-Mart's is unlimited.
You are right, Wal-Mart does not lay-off associates. The ones fired usually do something stupid and get fired for violating policy(which is very clearly written, ask the top execs)or just plain breaking the law.

So the next time you want to act like a DU member, get your facts straght.

R.Buckman

[investigateworld]

I take my grandkids to Wal-mart to show them what happens to people who don't do their homework and take advantage of the opportunities of our educational system.
And a giant KUDOs and Best Wishes to JimRob and the pioneers who set up this site. I use it frequently to help my grandkids with their education.
'''
*AND I know somewhere Dan Rather and his gang of liars are yelling; "Curse you Free Republic!"

[MHT]

The boom of northern Idaho has alot to do with the boom that spots in Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and other parts of the West are seeing with the retirement of baby-boomers to less-populated areas.

[TChris]

The boom of northern Idaho has alot to do with the boom that spots in Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and other parts of the West are seeing with the retirement of baby-boomers to less-populated areas.

Yeah. They spent their whole adult lives screwing up their home cities and states, then they come out here to the West, to retire where taxes, cost of living and crime are still low. Then, they start shooting off their mouths about how their new state isn't like the one they left!!

Pathetic.

[Lx]

Damn, I wish our Walmart was that nice...

Where do you live, in Watts?

[Chemist_Geek]

Today, I fear that we have an executive culture that puts short term pops in the stock price above long term sustainability and the interest of the community and nation.

Yep.

[Diana in Wisconsin]

Yep. That's why I like that site. I can look up various companies and decide for MYSELF where I'll spend my hard-earned dollars. :)

[katana]

My wife prefers Target, but I've still got a bone to pick with them about their treatment of employee reservists and the Salvation Army Christmas Bell Ringer ban. Won't shop there or even enter their stores. Probably my Celtic blood, but it takes a good long while for me to forgive or forget those types of things.

[esoxmagnum]

Well, I don't work for Walmart, but I do shop there. I am old enough and smart enough to understand what wage control does to an economy. Socialistic price fixing does nothing to help anyone. If you think I'm wrong, look at the auto industry.

Now, you can try and regulate Walmart all you want, as some have done here in Illinois, and the consequences are that Walmart will go somewhere else.

Oh, but wait you will say, if these are federal laws! then they couldn't go no where!

Yes, that is how socialists operate. Make federally mandated laws imposed on single entities. Can anyone say steel industry?

So, although you benefit the few who are employed, you in turn hurt the consumer of those products, who are much larger in number than the few employees. This in turn hurts the local economy, which in turns spurns the development of a new outlet in which to sell the goods at a reduced price.

Maybe this concept is foreign to you, its basic economic principle. Let me give you just one example; here where I live, Jewel is a large foodstore. They are union. They used to control the area, mainly by paying off local politicians to keep city boards from voting in other grocers. Their prices were very high. Many people started traveling 40+ miles to stock up on meat and things like that. Eventually, Aldi and Eagle and would get to a community near you. Non-Union mind you, lower prices. Of course the people got paid less, the idea was volume sales. These stores started to prosper, and eventually the Sams and Walmarts moved into the area, further, lowering prices, and driving these other companies out of business. How? Better management of product, better resarch into consumer trends, stocking only those items that they can get in bulk at discount and that will move quickly.

Now, Jewel Foodstores are nearly bankrupt. They are all over Chicagoland. Their parent company is threatening to close stores (and has closed many) because they cannot afford to pay twenty dollars an hour for someone to stock shelves of liquor.

Soon, they will be gone. Once they are gone, the employees will be gone also. That means they get paid NOTHING. NO benefits. No wages. No retirement. No pension. Nothing.

Now, is this Walmarts fault? No. It is a capitalistic society.

I've heard people say that businesses cannot compete against Walmart. Thats hooey! It is true that you cannot compete with Walmart if you want to continue "business as usual". To compete, you must change tactics, change strategies.

We have several enthic foodstores in the area that do well. Asian and hispanic. Why? They offer something Walmart does not. We have a local bikestore that still does well. Why? Service.

When McDonals rolled in to town, restaurateurs exclaimed "were doomed!". Some died, others improved. Those that improved, did well.

Walmart provides cheap products for those that can be sold cheaply, and provides incentive to improve or be forced out of the market.

Welcome to the great society of capitalism. I'm sure we will be around a lot longer than the USSR. Oh wait, they're gone.... aren't they? The next time you find some sabre-rattling Union member, ask them if they use Union labor around their home. Do they hire union plumbers and painters? Most paint their own home, or hire out of the phone book. Find out how many Union auto repairmen pay the 35 dollars an hour for Union painters to come into their home to paint walls. My guess is very few do. Why? Because they can do it cheaper. Don't enforce employers to adhere to guidelines that you as a consumer could not afford to adhere to. If you think it would hurt your pocket book, what do you think it does to the employer? Of course Walmart is riding high right now, Kmart once rode high, so did Sears, and Wards. Remember back years ago, when Malls were the rage, local merchants complained that Wards and Sears would move in and kill them. It happened to those that would not change. But also remember, Wards is now gone, and Sears and Kmart are merging just to survive. Someday, the same will happen to Walmart, but it doesn't need government to help toll the death bell. Finally keep in mind that Walmart MUST adhere to one basic premise of free enterprise, fair wage. And for all those of you that think they don't pay a fair wage, you are wrong. How do I know this? Because as long as there are people willing to work for that wage, it is a fair wage, set by the marketplace. Get that through your skull, if someone is willing to do the job for less, then the price of the skill is over-rated. If Walmarts wages weren't fair, then people wouldn't work for that wage, plain and simple. The market determines whats fair, not you, not your local alderman, not Jesse Jackson. Imposing wage restrictions will do nothing more than accelerate the demise of the company. In many cases I believe that this is what many socialists in America want to happen to the great evil Walmart.

[Stone Mountain]

During an ice storm in the winter of 1995, I watched their secret shoppers, that go to other stores, buy all the propane in household sized containers from all the other competing stores in the area, to take a loss so they could sell heater and camp stoves at increased prices due to the danger of the area.

This is fascinating to me. Can you explain a little more about how the secret shopper program works? I've heard about tactics like this before, but never from someone with first-hand knowledge. Thanks in advance!

[Stone Mountain]

"Are you saying that you know Wal-mart doesn't use child and slave labor?"

Yes, I am saying that Walmart does not use child or slave labor.

From http://www.responsibleshopper.org/basic.cfm?cusip=931142:

Child Labor In January 2004 the Associated Press reported that a Wal-Mart internal audit had warned top executives three years prior that employee records at 128 stores showed extensive violations of child-labor laws and state regulations. A spokesperson for the company told the paper the audit was meaningless, since what looked like violations could simply reflect employees' failure to punch in and out for breaks and meals they took. The audit shows one week's time-clock records for about 25,000 employees. The audit found 1,371 instances in which minors worked too late at night, worked during school hours or worked too many hours in a day, 60,767 apparent instances of workers not taking breaks, and 15,705 apparent instances of employees working through meal times. Source: Associated Press, Jan. 13, 2004

There are also quite a few reports of them using sweatshop labor in foreign countries where child labor laws are nowhere near as stringent as they are here...

For instance:

Sweatshop Labor Lee Kil-Soo, owner of the Daewoosa factory in American Samoa, was convicted in February 2003 of human trafficking for illegally confining workers in "involuntary servitude," holding their passports, and threatening deportation in retaliation for any acts of non-compliance. A US Department of Labor (DOL) investigation reported that workers at Daewoosa were often beaten, deprived of food, and forced to work without pay. Clothing produced by the Daewoosa factory was sold with the "Made in the USA" label, because American Samoa is a US territory. Before Mr. Lee's arrest and the closing of the factory, Daewoosa supplied clothing to J.C. Penney, Kohl's, Sears, Target, and Wal-Mart. According to the Manchester Guardian Weekly , only J.C. Penney has paid back wages to the Daewoosa workers. Source: DOL, Manchester Guardian Weekly, Washington Post

[Former Military Chick]

I so agree that Ben get's it. I have no doubt that he appreciates all the wonderful comments this particle offering has generated.

I wish there were more like Ben, to tell it like it is. One can hope!

[ozzymandus]

Sounds more like a function of where you live. Or maybe you're just a would-be snob.

[B-Chan]

I'm not a would-be anything. I prefer to shop in a clean, quiet environment where unruly children, parking-lot drifters, and scary street thugs are not present to ruin the atmosphere. In other words, I am willing to pay more for a pleasant shopping experience. If that makes me a snob, I will wear the label with pride.

Please don't misunderstand me. My hatred of Wal-Mart is based upon esthetics, not politics. I don't go around protesting Wal-Mart, trying to keep it out of my city, or complaining about its business practices. Yes, they sell products made my slave labor, yes, they drive local stores (and their own suppliers) out of business, but so do all the others. In any economic system where labor is commodified, the unit cost of labor (i.e. wages) trend lower and lower until the producing is done by either slaves or robots. Capitalism is such a system; therefore, the use of slaave labor (or robot labor) by Wal-Mart (or any other concern) is inevitable.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to pay more somewhere else instead of buying cheap at NASCAR Mart. I'm simply stating the reasons that I choose not to. I personally prefer to pay more for goods that are made by free adults and sold by local people, but that's my choice. Those who don't care about labor practices, local merchants, or atmosphere are welcome to my place in line at the Wal-Mart checkout.

[Semolina Pilchard]

"I have to disagree with you here. Free Republic is able to handle such a huge load and yet exist on purely voluntary donations in part because of its design. The lightweight, straight HTML nature of Free Republic makes it very fast."

Hi, TChris. Sorry for the delay; I just now got to my computer for the day.

Let me say upfront that the self-supported nature of FR, which thrives because its own users' donations, has always been one of the most appealing aspects of the site. In my mind, that's what makes it one of the most notable phenomena not just on the political Web, but on the entire Internet.

I also agree that the site's speed is refreshing (no browser pun intended). I'm not a fan of the ubiquitous UBB/Invision type of board format, which seems to choke even the mightiest of servers.

But the issues I raised are not about site "appearance" per se -- like you, I've no need for a bunch of bells and whistles. My remarks were aimed at basic navigational issues. It's not "fancy stuff" that I like. It's simplicity. And in my mind, simplicity involves consistency across the site, intuitive interfaces, uniform navigation aids, that kind of stuff.

I've been here for years, and I still have never completely felt figured out what I'm getting when I click the "Forum" link. There's a main list of threads, of course, but no indication why they're there, exactly, or what the list represents. Along the right-hand side, there are several blue boxes with threads from various "News/Activism" subcategories -- but without any indication why they're there, or how they made the cut.

Or take the "Browse by Forum" list in the upper right. All right, so let's say I click on "News/Activism." Up pops a page with a list of what are, presumably, the latest threads to have been posted in the News/Activism category. But then it gets confusing again. Down in those right-hand blue boxes, the threads listed there don't match the threads on the main list. More confusion.

For instance: At this moment, the thread atop the News/Activism main list is titled "Ehrlich, Steele mum on Md. marriage amendment." But if I read through the little blue subcategories on the right, there's no sign of that thread. After all my time here, I've never discerned the rhyme or reason behind it all, and I'm always left with a vague sense that I'm not getting the full picture -- that there might be pathways or links that just aren't real apparent. And that makes me wonder if I'm missing out on stuff I'd be interested in reading.

Sorry for the long example, but it's the only way I know how to describe it.

Let me note that I sometimes have this same experience at certain newspaper sites, where the main-page layout leaves me feeling like I'm not really seeing everything the site has to offer. That's frustrating. A good site makes it easy for the user to find content, to feel like they're getting everything they can out of the site. The user shouldn't have to wonder if he's seeing everything there is to see. The sense of comfortable navigation is a burden that should be on the site, not on the user.

I and many others appreciate a site designer that promotes performance over appearance. (Hey, that's a pretty good description of a conservative, isn't it? One who prefers performance above appearance.)

LOL -- nice analogy (and accurate)! Again, I don't care much about aesthetics, just functionality.

It's fun discussing this kind of stuff -- sort of like chatting about the quirks of the morning commute you drive day after day. (Though I'm not sure how we ended up doing it in this thread...!)

Best,
Semolina

[Palladin]

I love Walmart, too. Everything from books to towels to birdseed to toilet paper is cheaper there.

I can get $100 worth of merchandise for $50 at Wally.

What's so bad about that?

[Max Combined]

"minors worked too late at night, worked during school hours or worked too many hours in a day"

All minors are not children. These are teenagers who are working to make pocket money. Calling these teenagers children is like the liberals talking about child victims of gun violence when discussing statistics that that involve 16 and 17 year old hoods shooting each other.

"Sweatshop Labor Lee Kil-Soo, owner of the Daewoosa factory in American Samoa"

So the owner of the store was Mr. Kil-Soo, not Walmart. You claimed that Walmart used slave labor not that a supplier of Walmart ran what the leftist call a sweatshop and what the workers at the so-called sweatshop call their very best alternative for earning a living.

[Max Combined]

"I favor raising the minimum wage to a level that would keep a single mom with one child off Welfare. I really don't see how that is too much to ask for. It is simply caring for those you employ."

Luckily, you are not in charge, because your ignorance of economics is despicable.

If you truly think raising the minimum wage is an effective way to improve the life for the poor, you should be for raising the minimum wage to $1000/hour and then there would be no more poor people.

[Max Combined]

"Socialist? Hardly."

Sorry. I misjudged you. After reading your screed, I see that you are a tin foil wearer.