Posted on 01/29/2005 7:38:39 PM PST by bayourod
LITTLE ROCK - Gov. Mike Huckabee Thursday denounced a bill by Sen. Jim Holt that would deny state benefits to illegal immigrants as un-Christian, un-American, irresponsible and anti-life.
Holt, R-Springdale, replied later that Christian charity does not include turning a blind eye to lawbreaking.
Senate Bill 206, filed Wednesday, also would require proof of citizenzhip to register to vote and would require state agencies to report suspected cases of people living in the country illegally.
"Somebody needs to ask Sen. Holt what welfare this bill would stop," Huckabee said in a question-and-answer period with reporters on Thursday morning. Many aid programs are state-administered but federally funded and are mandated to be available to people in need, Huckabee said.
Even if benefits to people who are in the U.S illegally could be stopped, "I don't understand how a practicing Christian can turn his back on a child from this or any other state," Huckabee said.
Holt replied, "I think the politically correct movement has misconstrued what compassion really means. They think compassion means that any person can disrespect our laws and that we're supposed to be tolerant and let them get away with it.
"True compassion is correcting them so in the future they can be law-abiding citizens," Holt said.
Holt said he would seek a state attorney general's opinion on what the bill would do if passed. He said he would delay further action on it, at least temporarily, to allow the attorney general to respond.
The bill is modeled after a similar law in Arizona and supported by the newly formed group Protect Arkansas NOW. The group's chairman is Joe McCutchen of Fort Smith. "I know Sen. Holt and Mr. McCutchen say they're pro-life," Huckabee said. "We're trying to preserve the life of someone who, when born, will be an American citizen with his first breath. We can spend $900 on pre-natal care when the mother is pregnant. Instead, this bill would have us take a chance and spend $2,000 a day at Children's hospital if the baby's born and something has gone wrong. That's anti-life."
Huckabee said he took exception to characterization of immigrants in the bill and by its supporters as exploiters of social programs. "They pay sales taxes on their groceries," Huckabee said. "They pay fuel taxes. If they're using a fake Social Security number, they're paying Social Security taxes and will never receive any benefit. It would be closer to the truth to say they're subsidizing Joe McCutchen and Jim Holt more than the other way around.
"Something that's not worth sharing is not worth celebrating," Huckabee said. "This is the kind of country that opens its doors. This bill expresses an un-American attitude."
McCutchen, reached by telephone at his home in Fort Smith, repeated some of Holt's arguments, including the one that the people referred to in Holt's bill are in the United States illegally.
"They broke the law," he said. "My angst is not with them, though. My angst is with the state and federal government for not enforcing our laws."
People living illegally in the United State has "overwhelmed our school and welfare system," McCutchen said. As for whether the bill reflects un-Christian attitudes, McCutchen said: "Jim Holt is as good a man and as good a Christian as any man walking this Earth."
"Doggone it, the rule of law is not being upheld, and that's wrong," McCutchen said.
McCutchen joined Holt in a news conference last week to announce the forming of Protect Arkansas NOW and to discuss plans to file SB 206. Since that news conference Friday on the state Capitol steps, McCutchen was featured on the web page of the Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks membership and activities of groups such as the Ku Klux Klan. One group tracked by the center is the Council of Conservative Citizens, which claimed McCutchen as a member, according to the law center's article. The article is available at: http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp
"To anybody who will listen, I'll make a speech at my own expense," McCutchen said. The CCC "asked me to come up and make a talk on illegal immigration. The talk lasted 15 minutes and I drove myself to Virginia to give it. I financed that thing by myself."
A letter of McCutchen's was reprinted in a magazine owned by the CCC, according to the law center website. "I did buy a list of donors from the American Immigration Council. I sent out a letter to about 200 people telling what I was doing," McCutchen said. "I suppose one of those letters went out to this magazine.
"That was the end of that, I thought," McCutchen said. "I'm just astounded by the attention this has received. CNN (Cable News Network) was at my home Tuesday afternoon. The very next morning, the Southern Poverty Law Center sent this out and the segment on CNN is on hold."
Yes --- very interesting. But not very surprising. It's pretty obvious that this type cares nothing about the people or that country because uncontrolled immigration for one is making it all worse over there. The only thing they care about is having all the more easily exploitable people --- and getting rich with an unlimited supply of taxpayer subsidized labor. To hell with anything but their own profits.
Advantage: Holt.
bump
"I can't say that a man who risked his life to come to America the do hard dirty low paying labor in order to feed his children is immoral. I can say that the lazy dope head who sits around drinking beer all day and whining about Mexicans taking all the jobs while his wife works as a stripper to pay the bills is immoral."
You really need to get out from the barrios. In every one of your post where you compare illegals to citizens the citizens are always the lazy dope heads and the illegals are ALWAYS the hard working poor poor man trying to feed his family. Do you really think that we beleive that? I'm sorry but I don't know any dope heads. But I do know plenty of illegals that are on welfare and the wives are sitting on the porches drinking tea(most of the time pregnant with the little meal ticket) while I'm working.
I have no idea why Jim Robinson puts up with you. Oh yeah I forgot, he doesn't think illegal immigration is a problem either.
It is illegal for people to cross our borders without going through the proper channels to do so. That is reason enough to oppose it. The devistating impact this flood of humanity is having on our nation, is further reason for adults to oppose the criminality of it. They are here illegaly. They are causing a massive drain of tens of billions of dollars in tax funds. They are over represented in the commissions of crime. Many of them are repeat offenders who prey on children and women. When it gets too hot, they return to Mexico for a spell until they return to commit more crimes.
Frankly I have to tell you, that the idea that people oppose our nations laws because they want to molest children was a preposterous canard of the same type you attempted to use against me. It was only meant to provide an example for you to realize how silly you were being. Issues rise or fall on their own merits. If we wish to discuss the problems of people who molest children, we should address it on it's own merits.
Yes illegals are in the midwest too. They are in paultry numbers compared to their California, New York, Florida and Texas numbers. The United States progressed to the status of premier nation on the planet without tens of millions of illegal aliens spuring the economy. Therefore your claim that we must have them is just bogus on the face of it. Well, you may not think your theory has been shot to hell, but I'm comfortable with the opinion of others who are convinced of it.
Legal immigration is more than meeting demand for labor. What you folks continuously dismiss, is that we have 5% unemployment. That's around ten to twelve million people. There is another group of people that has fallen off your radar. They are the people who are employed with make-work jobs by various programs under HHS. These jobs are not full-time, and they are subsidized by HHS funding, but the citizen is considered employed. These people could be jetesoned from those programs and placed in bonified full-time jobs.
Once again you're back on the topic of Robert Byrd. Since immigration debates stand on their own merits without racism playing a factor, your continual bogus inclusion of him really doesn't accomplish anything other than to prove that you can't discuss this issue without straw dogs.
I don' really care whether you accept my claims about illegals or not. The truth doesn't hinge on your ability to grasp it or believe it. As for my points being good examples of 'right fringe' logic, that would be the assessment of the consumate leftist. The person who thinks our's is a nation of laws would never characterize the advocacy of adhering to them to be 'fringe'. Outing yourself isn't really a win win for you, but hey, it's your choice.
Although I found little in your response that challenged my opinion, you did reinforce my perspective of the opponents of immigration. Thank you for taking the time to read my post and respond. It takes skill to communicate through written words alone. Although I disagree with you it is not because your opinions were unclear.
This is an interesting admission on your part. Although you thought my comments were well expressed and very clear and seemingly easy to understand, they were none the less unimpressive to you. The truth of them escaped you, and of course, you found them to reinforce your thoughts regarding those who oppose illegal immigration.
You have provided a very clear image of who you think opposes illegal immigration. You have equated them to Robert Byrd, and have used a number of buzz words meant to frame them as the consumate racists. I'd defy anyone to point out an example of racism in my posts to you. Absent their ability to provide one, that really frames you by the way you framed this debate.
You are a sad individual who is unable to discuss this issue without race-baiting. The facts stand on their own, yet you refuse to admit they exist. You are dishonest in your approach to the subject, and have sought to spin periferal webs of deciet, into something meaningful.
I spent my time addressing real issues and providing reasons why I assess this situation the way I do. You spent your time calling me a racist and dodging realty. That's a shame.
It's just window dressing, smoke & mirrors for this Administration.
Border security ENFORCEMENT and elimination of illegal immigration and fraud have NEVER been a priority for Dubya Bush, and won't ever be.
The ONLY way it gets done is if he's forced to address it -- and bet he'd only do it while kicking and screaming.
Bayourod, some of your posts defy explanation, even though you repeatedly do your best to provide it.
We have a U.S. Constitution that states the federal government 'shall' protect the states against invasion. You deny that millions pouring across our borders is an invasion, or that our President is obligated to stop it. Instead you tout programs he has implemented while the numbers have doubled or tripled., claiming he's really getting a handle on things. The evasions of reality, the reclassifications of what you do are doing, are amazing feats of spin and dishonesty. As if I really care whether you tell me the truth or not, I would at least think you would want to be honest with yourself.
When it comes to illegal immigration, you do advocate lawless behavior and cast our immigration polices as unreasonable and not worthy of enforcement.
The rest of your comments boil down to this. The troops have left the fort without a contingement for pretection the the absense of the major portion of forces. We are wide open on the borders, with two to three million occupying forces invading our nation each and every year, with terrorists among them. There are members of very violent gangs among them. These gangmembers are arrested as far away as New York.
Bush has done an excellent job with regard to Iraq. I have complimented him with regard to that a number of times.
Your last sentence pretty much reveals you for what you are Bayourod. It couldn't be much more clear how dishonest you are.
"But the anti-immigrants aren't concerned about terrorism, just Mexicans." This dishonest post reveals you to be an unabashed jerk. You continually link normal immigration with illegal immigration. Right here on this thread I have addressed the issue of normal immigration, saying that it will continue. I have also mentioned to you directly many times that terrorists are able to slip through our borders along with the two to three million people who are not checked at our borders. So much for your honesty. You also state that we're only focused on Mexican citizens, even though I've had conversations with you for years on this subject, in which I have stated countless times that I do not approve of any illegal immigration into this nation, no matter the nation of origion. The Mexican citizen is focused upon with more comments, because they happen to be the clear majority of the violaters of our sovereign borders, not that you would need me to remind you of that if you were being forthright and honest.
In light of your disruption, dishonesty and advocacy for lawless border practices by foreign nationals, I will ask again. Who are you represnting here? It certainly isn't our nation and it's laws. Is it Mexico, D.U., La Raza, Maldef, La MechLa or La Voz de Aztlan?
Come on Mr. Sincerity, be honest for one time in your life.
No. I beleive they make extrapolations in between actual ten year census counts. Perhaps someone else can provide a more accurate assessment on that topic.
"They (Pat Buchanan and Tom Tancredo) are business partners in the mailing list development business."
That is Bay Buchanan not APt, bayoroud.
Are is having your pic on a website with someones sister 'proof enough'?
Lord, you neocons act like Pat Buchanan is the Anti-Christ and if anyone has even tangential mutual associations that makes them, in your words, co-cultists?
Are you that caught up in McCarthyism?
SSOOOO WWWHHHAAAATTTTT???????
PAt is NOT lending his name and pic to the site you gave, for the obvious reason that he does not want to support Tancredos site, for whatever reason.
That they have mutual acquaintances proves nothing remotely like they are 'partners' in this effort.
And it certainly says nothing about it being a *cult*, for LOL!
I advocate taking away your claim on public funds. If your children are hungry get a job.
I advocate allowing good workers to stay in the US.
It was conspiracy crap...you write of the "Powers That Be" and messages in video games. You should get a sense of humor or a thick skin if you are gonna spout ill-conceived conspiracy theory.
Your post brought many smiles to my face. I wanted to share that good feeling with other who I respect and like. Don’t get upset because I laughed. I couldn’t help myself. Your post made me feel so wonderful that all the happiness inside me…just had to pop out. Same way with everybody else. That post of yours…why, it makes folks happy! You have a great gift.
Sounds to me as if Huckabee went far, far over the line.
A Christian is not required to steal food from his children to feed the burglar who breaks down his door and barges in, demanding to be served. Rather, he's required to protect his family.
What Huckabee seems to favor is stealing some children's food to give it to illegal break-and-entries.
What's Christian, or American, or pro-life, about that?
Gosh, I'd always thought Huckabee was a good guy.
Dan
I believe you can make an informed opinion about the actions and motivations of others. You just don't want to.
When it gets too hot, they return to Mexico for a spell until they return to commit more crimes.
The statistic of 15 million illegals and crime statistic disproves your generalizations. Most illegals work and obey our laws.
Legal immigration is more than meeting demand for labor. What you folks continuously dismiss, is that we have 5% unemployment.
I don't dismiss it I just didn't think you would use a historically low statistic to try and prove your point. It is not a logical argument.
I don' really care whether you accept my claims about illegals or not.
Your lengthy responses belie that.
You are a sad individual who is unable to discuss this issue without race-baiting.
I do not think you are a racist, or at least I see no evidence other than your opposition to Dubya's guest worker program. I have not said all who disagree with me are racists. I have consistently left room in my argument to include the motivations of people who oppose me on the basis of law. You can't even seem to say Byrd is a racist.
I spent my time addressing real issues and providing reasons why I assess this situation the way I do. You spent your time calling me a racist and dodging realty.
You have impugned my intelligence and my principles. I have not reciprocated. I questioned your judgment and I gave my reasons. I don't think your stupid or evil, just wrong.
Have a nice day.
Yes, thank you.
"powers that not be" is not conspiracy theory. It is premised on vested interest, while conspiracy is defined by collusion.
The vested interests who put pro illegal propaganda in video games. I understand. Thanx again.
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