Navy photos of Submarine USS San Francisco in Dry Dock (you won't believe the extent of damage!)

U.S. Navy ^

[Boot Hill]

The amount of damage is simply staggering!

That this boat ever made it back to port is a tribute to its designers, builders, and especially to the crew and captain. How does America keep finding men like these?

High resolution version here

High resolution version here

[steve86]

Still, we lost only a small percentasge of engineers due to slipping off into the water.

Sounds like just the ticket for certain trial lawyers. Come take a ride on our sub... "nature" walk included.

[Long Cut]

"What is YOUR expertise on submarine operations?"

Check my homepage. I hunt them.

Plus, I just showed these pics to my CMC, who served 20 years in LA's, with about 7 as a COB. I asked him what the skipper's chances were. He said, and I quote, "He's done. No if's, and's, or but's."

[Enterprise1788]

Well, I know back in the 50's, the battleship Wisconsin had to have her bow replaced after she collided with a destroyer. So, they cut the bow off of the unfinished battleship Kentucky, which was later scrapped.

Granted, however, replacing the bow of a battleship is much different from an SSN, because if the repair fails on the battleship (which it hasn't after 45+ years) the worst that will happen is she has to return to port. If the same were to happen to a sub hundreds of feet underwater, the sub would end up in the same conversations as the Thresher and Scorpion.

[Bahbah]

See Post #119 from a knowledgeable FReeper, which I am not.

[steve86]

Figure THAT would be half the cost of building a new boat.

Yeah, I think this can be considered a "spares restocking" mission for the rest of the fleet.

[Southack]

Might I humbly suggest a 30 foot long forward facing "curb feeler" tied to an automatic ballast-blowing computer to potentially avoid these sorts of situations if we ever again have to run at high speed in unknown waters?

[Long Cut]

No, but I do have only the published reports to go on. They all say that the mountain was uncharted, in an area where the charting of the undersea floor was likewise incomplete.

It WAS known that there were numerous pinnacles and undersea mountains in the area. Given this, going at flank speed (and therefore being nearly blind ahead) does not seem "prudent". The review will doubtless bring this up.

[elli1]

I haven't heard too much about this story

You can also click on 'usssanfrancisco' (under Keywords) near the top of the page. That will bring up several articles.

[WildTurkey]

"What is YOUR expertise on submarine operations?" Check my homepage. I hunt them.

Sorry. Aircrewman does not provide you with submarine operations credentials.

[Robert A Cook PE]

Yeah: On WWII boats, the ballast tanks were all the length of the hull (pretty much) and wrapped around the pressure hull. A free-flooding open area (the fairwater) was under the flat (visible) deck for surface running and surface combat with guns..

Post Albacore hull, the original Permit and Thresher boats has the FWD MBT's wrapped around the pressure hull, the mid MBTs wrapped around the pressure hull, and the aft ones kind of stuck on and smoothed in.

On 688's, the fwd three MBT's are concentric around the very small 32" (?) pressure-tight access tunnel to the sonar sphere itself. Then comes the fwd elliptical bulkhead, then there are NO mbt's until the aft elliptical bulkhead, where MBT 4A/B and 5A/B are. So the pressure IS the outside surface for the entire middle of the ship, with only about 4-5 feet of MBT3A/B faired into the elliptical bulkhead.

Much of what you see squashed on the port side used to MBT's and torpedo tubes hatches and outer doors. AHP tanks (banana's) also.

[sport]

Bump

[Redcloak]

Based on what I remember of a 1/4 scale model of the 688 (used for testing a sonar array) the bulkhead between the sonar suite and the forward compartment looks more or less normal. They probably had some flooding, but nothing catastrophic.

[WildTurkey]

It WAS known that there were numerous pinnacles and undersea mountains in the area. Given this, going at flank speed (and therefore being nearly blind ahead) does not seem "prudent". The review will doubtless bring this up.

If this was a normal transit route employed by numerouse submarines previously (heck, maybe the SF had done it before) and your OPS ordered you to transit and gave you the schedule, you would be toast if you didn't get there in time.

[jwpjr]

re: as an old sonar type(read 1990s)

Wrong! Read early 1960's! I don't get what you're trying to tell me though, was it too much info, not enough, not relevant or what? There is certainly nothing secret about the technology

[Long Cut]

"Sorry. Aircrewman does not provide you with submarine operations credentials."

Fair enough. What about what ELSE I said?

Look, I may not have what YOU consider credibility, but I've spent nearly 13 years in the Navy, doing what I do. I've flown on what seems like hundreds of LA's, and I've taken tours of boats. I've spoken with skippers and crewmen. I'm also priviledged to work with people who HAVE spent considerable time on them, like my Master Chief. Unanimously, they say the CO is toast.

[Enterprise1788]

Might I humbly suggest a 30 foot long forward facing "curb feeler"

30 feet? Keep in mind that 7,000 ton submarines doing 30+ knots have a lot of forward momentum. If my quick calculations are correct, that translates to less than 1 second reaction time.

[Robert A Cook PE]

It would make too much noise in the water near the sonar dome and long-range sonars, be impossible to support underwater at high speed as the boat turned, and would not be able to give enough warning to survive anything.

Try attaching a broomstick to the front of your boat (underwater at the bow), and then running at 30+ knots .....

Can't be done.

Even the cleats (which are reversible and retractable) and the hatches and latches and screws and bolts fwd are flush to the hull to reduce noise. There are no handholds anymore forward because they made too much noise. The cleats aft (behind the sail) are streamlined and "too small" to be easily used because they reduce water drag and noise that way.

The sub's navigation lights are streamlined even. It's fog whistle is covered with a retractable cover.

[WildTurkey]

Look, I may not have what YOU consider credibility, but I've spent nearly 13 years in the Navy, doing what I do. I've flown on what seems like hundreds of LA's, and I've taken tours of boats. I've spoken with skippers and crewmen. I'm also priviledged to work with people who HAVE spent considerable time on them, like my Master Chief. Unanimously, they say the CO is toast.

You have spent your time looking for subs, I spent my time evading your searches ... and WE always won!

[elli1]

From my Alaskan experience it is clear that where there is junk there must be a blue tarp over it.

LOL--Blue Tarp rule applies here in Wisconsin, too!

[Eaker]

If this was a normal transit route employed by numerouse submarines previously (heck, maybe the SF had done it before)

This statement proves that you have not read the previous threads.

A few months doesn't make you an expert FReeper either.