Lawyer advocates an exam to find out woman's status (the pain her folks must be feeling)

The Associated Press ^ | January 26, 2005 | Vickie Chachere

[Former Military Chick]

TAMPA -- Terri Schiavo should undergo a new examination by independent medical experts to put to rest lingering questions on whether she has any hope of recovery, the University of South Florida professor who had been her court-appointed advocate said Tuesday.

But before any tests are done, her warring husband and parents would have to agree to drop their legal fight in favor of whichever side the medical evidence supports, Jay Wolfson said in his first interview on the case since serving as Terri Schiavo's guardian ad litem.

His comments come as the legal options of Terri Schiavo's parents have dwindled to two pending matters in state courts, which have ruled against them before.

The U.S. Supreme Court refused Monday to consider a legal challenge to "Terri's Law," the measure pushed by Gov. Jeb Bush in October 2003 to keep Terri Schiavo alive after the courts had cleared the way for her death.

Wolfson served as Schiavo's guardian for two months in 2003 under the auspices of "Terri's Law." He tried to broker an agreement between the two sides but failed.

Wolfson said it's not too late to revisit the original question in the saga -- is the 41-year-old woman disabled or brain dead?

"There is so much at stake here, not just for Terri, but for the issue," said Wolfson, a physician and a lawyer who serves as director of the Health Policy Information Center at USF. "If we were serious about addressing this, we would say, 'What are the interests of the parties and how can we use science, medicine and good law to take away from the clouding factors in this case?' "

Attorneys for her husband, Michael Schiavo, did not return calls for comment Tuesday.

[Former Military Chick]

Nothing like telling parents you must accept that this would be it, especially since they were and are willing to care for their daughter, along with extended family as well.

[Former Military Chick]

Latest on the Schiavo case.

[penowa]

"Wolfson...tried to broker a deal between the two sides..."

Someone please explain how you broker a deal between somebody who wants her dead and somebody who wants her to live? I can't seem to find any middle ground between dead and alive.

[syriacus]

The ante has been upped.

The question no longer is whether Michael is telling the truth when he says Terri would chose to be killed rather than live in this condition.

The new question is, "Can Terri get better than being in this condition?"

[kenth]

Wolfson is really just trying to make Terri justify her existence; that for her to live she must prove herself worthy of life. I'm pretty sure Wolfson doesn't live under those same requirements.

[Ohioan from Florida]

Terri ping! If anyone would like to be added to or removed from my Terri ping list, please let me know by Freepmail (private reply for lurkers).

[thomaswest]

A brain dead condition is recognized in medical science and law and by major churches. These situations are tragic, but half-life, half-dead is not being alive. If the tests show conclusively that Terri is brain dead, it is better that she slips away.

Note: the higher functions of the brain may die, while the medula obligata keeps the heart, diaphragm, intestines, kidneys moving. This is a primordial function, but well below human functioning.

[Future Useless Eater]

>>These situations are tragic, but half-life, half-dead is not being alive. If the tests show conclusively that Terri is brain dead, it is better that she slips away.

No one is saying she is brain dead. Heck she even laughs at her father's jokes. The parents, brother and sister would LOVE to take over her permanent care. The hubbie asked another woman to marry him, and THEN suddenly remembered the wifie wanted to die.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the ping!

[supercat]

A brain dead condition is recognized in medical science and law and by major churches. These situations are tragic, but half-life, half-dead is not being alive. If the tests show conclusively that Terri is brain dead, it is better that she slips away.

The problem is that it would be easy for anyone who wanted to formaulate a "test" that Terri couldn't pass.

Besides, there is no excuse for Michael's refusal to allow any attempts at bona fide therapy during his efforts to starve Terri. If such attempts were to prove futile, there would be no harm done by them; if they were successful, that would suggest that Terri's condition was such that she should be allowed to live.

Unfortunately, Michael wouldn't want Terri to live even if she could get better.

[Ohioan from Florida]

BTTT!

[supercat]

The hubbie asked another woman to marry him, and THEN suddenly remembered the wifie wanted to die.

Is it provable that the husband was shacking up with Jodi prior to his testimony about Terri's wishes? If so, one might be able to write a new Terri's law that stated that no verbal "living will declaration" shall be accepted unless it is withessed by someone other than an adulterous husband and siblings and in-laws thereof, and authorizing that if Jeb Bush believes that an attempt is being made to starve/dehydrate someone on the basis of such testimony he may issue a stay until a court hearing in which all matters related to past and present conflicts of interest on the part of the persons giving testimony shall be admissible.

[Future Useless Eater]

FL definition of persistent vegetative state, PVS:

• The absence of voluntary action or cognitive behavior of any kind.
• An inability to communicate or interact purposefully with the environment.

.

From video Terri Big Eyes; see it at http:www.terrisfight.org

Terri starts out apparently asleep. A doctor wakes her to start his tests.

Doctor: Terri. Open your eyes up...

Terri: (Startled at hearing her name. She starts moving her mouth and fluttering her eyes, like a person who is just waking up)

Doctor: Open your eyes, Terri open your eyes

Terri: (slowly at first, Terri struggles to open her eyes, then turns toward the doctor, and opens her eyes a normal amount)

Doctor: There you go, good.

Terri: (then, either to show off(?) or wanting to perform well, she leans further forward toward the doctor, looks straight at him and opens her eyes as WIDE AS SHE CAN. >> Note the WRINKLES ACROSS HER FOREHEAD caused by her also RAISING HER EYEBROWS as high as possible )

Doctor: [now obviously impressed] GOOD!! GOOD JOB! GOOD JOB YOUNG LADY! Good Job.

More info and links. -- http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1258807/posts#10

[Future Useless Eater]

>> Is it provable that the husband was shacking up with Jodi prior to his testimony about Terri's wishes?

I think it is. The Schiavo family published in a Pennsylvania obituary, that Jodi was Michael's fiance in 1997 I believe, when Michael's mother died. Another paper, I believe in Florida, 1997, interviewed Michael and quoted that the pair had gotten engaged the prior year.

I don't believe Michael ever announced his recollection of Terri's death-wish until 1998. And one or more of Michael's girlfriend(s) before 1994 quoted him as saying he had NO IDEA of her wishes because they NEVER talked about it.

[thomaswest]

*Unfortunately, Michael wouldn't want Terri to live even if she could get better.*

There is a lot of emotion on this topic--"if I were her", hatred for Michael (who had nothing to do with her accident and present medical condition), the Catholic position on euthanasia (which this is not a case of), recognizing end of life with dignity.

The emotion spent in this case seems out of proportion. Terri is not the only one in this sad circumstance. And every situation needs to be evaluated on its own merits for when ending life support is reasonable.

[Future Useless Eater]

From terrisfight.org

In the Florida 6th Circuit Court (Motion to Void Order - Due Process) - Judge Greer is presiding.
This new motion is asking the court to void the 2000 Order authorizing Schiavo to discontinue Terri's assisted feeding because she was denied her right to due process of law.  Terri has never had an attorney to represent her personal and non-delegable interests, the court applied the wrong law to her alleged statements concerning life support, and the court violated the separation of powers by acting as judge, law-maker, and proxy-guardian. Oral arguments on this motion are set for Friday, January 28, 2005.
Motion to Void Order. (1-6-05 PDF)
Supporting Brief for Voidness Motion (1-11-05 PDF)

[Former Military Chick]

Thank you for adding this to the thread, I know it will be helpful to many.

[supercat]

*Unfortunately, Michael wouldn't want Terri to live even if she could get better.*

The emotion spent in this case seems out of proportion. Terri is not the only one in this sad circumstance. And every situation needs to be evaluated on its own merits for when ending life support is reasonable.

Michael has denied therapy to Terri for years. It has been difficult to prosecute him for this because it has been impossible to prove that such denial has in fact harmed Terri. If, however, Terri were ever to show some improvement I think it would be very difficult to claim that denying her therapy for years was not harmful.

I don't think such a claim is based on emothion; I think it is a fairly straightforward evaluation of the facts. If you disagree, please explain why you think it is factually incorrect.

Based on the above, I would posit that Michael would have a strong belief that if Terri's condition improves he would end up in big trouble, quite likely going to prison for a long time. Again, if you disagree with this assessment, please explain why.

If the facts and hypothesis above are true, and if one accepts the hypothesis that Michael does not want to go to prison for a long time (would seem reasonable), they would together suggest that Michael does not want Terri's condition to improve.

If you disagree with my logic, please explain where. It seems pretty straightforward to me.

[sport]

Are you Michael Schivo?

[windchime]

Thanks!