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A note on the Armanious case
jihadwatch.org ^ | January 24, 2005 | www.jihadwatch.com

Posted on 01/24/2005 9:07:31 PM PST by indcons

A note on the Armanious case

At Jihad Watch we have received a large number of inquiries, both sober and frenzied, about the Coptic family found murdered in Jersey City last week.

As is well known, the Copts in Jersey City and elsewhere have many suspicions about this crime. But when they have voiced these suspicions, they have been frequently denounced as Islamophobes; an all-purpose term of abuse used to silence criticism of Islam and of Muslims. And Hudson County Prosecutor Edward DeFazio is dismissive of the idea that the killings were religiously motivated: “Is it possible? Yes. Do we have anything that gives us reason to believe this is what it was, factually? No. Nothing indicates that was the prime motivation for this. That we can clearly say.”

Nothing? Law enforcement officials have received information from at least one Copt; a close friend of the Armanious family — indicating that the crime was indeed religiously motivated. This family friend has said that an imam in Jersey City declared this Christian family’s blood “halal,” (i.e., licit to shed), because of their proselytizing activities among Muslims. He has named — by name — a suspect in this crime, whose motive was religious and who has fled the country.

Perhaps there is nothing to this. Perhaps the man who has fled is innocent. But even if he is, the Copts have had perfectly cogent reasons for their suspicions. The Armanious family was outspoken in trying to convert Muslims to Christianity. Hossam Armanious vigorously spread his faith at PalTalk, and his 15-year-old daughter Sylvia displayed similar zeal at Dickinson High School. There is credible evidence that for this activity the family received a death threat. In light of all that, it may be that what needs to be justified is the idea that their deaths were in fact unrelated to that proselytizing activity. Islamic law, the Sharia, has traditionally made it a capital offense both for a Muslim to leave Islam, and for a non-Muslim to attempt to convert a Muslim. Many Muslims take such laws very seriously. The Theo van Gogh murder in the Netherlands indicates that at least some will not hesitate to enforce Sharia penalties even in the lands of the infidels.

But if the killer is never caught, which is a distinct possibility since he could be half a world away by now, Muslim spokesmen will attribute the suspicions of the Copts to a “climate of hysteria” against Muslims, and portray themselves — as they do so often — as victims.

Still, a larger question remains. If the Armanious family did in fact receive a death threat related to their proselytizing on Pal Talk, what are the implications for our free society? If the murders were indeed, as many Copts suspect, a warning to them not to proselytize among Muslims, what does that mean for the free exchange of ideas that has always been one of the central values perhaps the central value of the American polity?

The mainstream media has done a poor job of covering this case. It has not bothered to explain that the difficulties Copts experience in Egypt are not old or even centuries-old (as the New York Times put it); they are as old as when the Muslim invaders first conquered Coptic Christian Egypt. They don't come from anything Copts have said or done to Muslims, but from the supremacist nature of Islamic beliefs. But in the media in general there has been no understanding of this and no discussion of the Sharia or of how apostates in Islam are to be treated, or of what punishment is to be meted out to those who dare (as the Armanious family dared) not to act as the despised and cowed minority they were in Egypt, but as free and equal and proud citizens of this country.

No statement has come from the Hudson County Prosecutors Office that shows any sign that that Office has considered these questions, or fully investigated the Copts' suspicions and allegations. This may not have been a Sharia-inspired killing on American soil, but nothing that has yet come from Edward DeFazio or anyone else seems to deal adequately with the indications that it was. White House Wilsonians seem intent on bringing democracy to Iraq, as if that will somehow solve the problem of Islam, and of the jihad that they persist in identifying solely by one of its tools, terrorism. Meanwhile, an unknown number of Muslims in the United States; possibly including the killer of the Armanious family; are working to solve the problems of Islam by laboring, in one way or another, to bring Sharia to this country.

But few are paying attention to that.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: armanious; coptic; copts; dhimmi; egypt; islam; jihadwatchcom; muslims; newjersey; religionofpeace
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1 posted on 01/24/2005 9:07:34 PM PST by indcons
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To: broadsword; Former Dodger; Fred Nerks; jan in Colorado; Nesher

Religion of pieces alert ping

Hmmmm!

They suspect it was religiously motivated!

WhaT brilliant reasoning! (/sarcasm)


2 posted on 01/24/2005 9:13:30 PM PST by fastattacksailor (This tagline under serious consideration!)
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To: indcons
I have been following this case and these are the pertinent facts.
1 The house was not broken into
2 Jewelry and valuables were left in the house
3 A family of four had their throats slit
4 There was tension in the community between Coptics and Muslims
5 There was a threat sent over the Internet.

The newspapers are afraid of another Crown Heights. The facts clearly point in the direction of ritual killing.
3 posted on 01/24/2005 9:15:39 PM PST by Marano NYC
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bump


4 posted on 01/24/2005 9:21:35 PM PST by XHogPilot
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To: Alouette

Religion of Peace ping


5 posted on 01/24/2005 9:22:48 PM PST by indcons (The Quran - the world's first WMD)
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To: indcons
Islamic law, the Sharia, has traditionally made it a capital offense both for a Muslim to leave Islam, and for a non-Muslim to attempt to convert a Muslim.

This is something Islamic apologists never talk about when they describe Islam as a "religion of peace".

6 posted on 01/24/2005 9:25:36 PM PST by Noachian (We're all one judge away from tyranny.)
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To: indcons

Jersey City, NJ....Wonder if the family had a gun......hmmmm.....knife vs. gun......


7 posted on 01/24/2005 9:29:48 PM PST by Jeff Gordon Fan
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To: Noachian

USA needs to be ridded of Islam, for there needs to be at least one place in the world where people can be free.
Coptics have been told that we are free here, but Islamics are fast on their way, trying to turn the USA in to the hell that they came from.


8 posted on 01/24/2005 9:32:09 PM PST by tessalu
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To: indcons

I said the day after this happened that the murderers were already on a plane back to Egypt.

Jersey City Police and FBI will never catch them.


9 posted on 01/24/2005 9:32:33 PM PST by Palladin (Proud to be a FReeper!)
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To: Marano NYC; ariamne; yer gonna put yer eye out

Yes, I agree completely.

These were the "basic facts" at first, a few days ago it changed slightly :

1 It may have been a robbery, since the father's and eldest daughter's wallets were found empty;

2 The SLIT throats now became "puncture wounds in the throat" or they were "stabbed in the throat";

3 It was thought that one person could not have done this, it had to be 2 or more;

MY problem with this:

1 A "Team" of 2 or more would not risk the death penalty for wallet money; jewelry and electronics would have been taken, too, and tying up the victims would have sufficed, there was no need to kill them (see DEATH PENALTY above);

2 Someone bound and gagged would not be stabbed in the throat, unless there was a fight, stabbing is the act of an assassin, or a fight: they were bound, then murdered, it does not fit; a SLIT throat sends a message to others who "talk" too much, as does the mutilation of the tattooed Coptic Cross on the 15 year old's wrist.

The PC police have taken over the jurisdiction from the JC Police, "in the interest of preserving order in the community" is my guess.

They hope it will go away.

It won't.


10 posted on 01/24/2005 9:34:49 PM PST by Former Dodger (I thought ABORTION was murder and FUR was a Woman's right to choose.)
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To: fastattacksailor; Former Dodger; Dark Skies; Fred Nerks
Thanks for the ping sailor.

I think we all know what this execution style murder was all about. No one is fooled here.

I don't know about local coverage, but the silence of the MSM speaks volumes,

Kobe Bryant, Michael Jackson, Scot Peterson etc. get 24/7 news coverage, but a family of four get their throats cut and hardly a mention is made. Where is the outrage?

Sweeping this under the rug will not make it go way. The enemy is here planing its next move, growing in strength, using our own laws to weaken us and empower themselves.

Islam is a cult of death and deception. It is time for it to be exposed for what it is and to be eradicated from this Country! Better yet, this world!
11 posted on 01/24/2005 9:36:06 PM PST by jan in Colorado (To defeat the enemy, you must first KNOW the enemy and then destroy it!)
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To: indcons

I agree. the silence of the MSM is unexplicable. Imagine the if it were the other way around... say a craze Christian slit the thoats of a Muslim family. every outlet would be screaming "Hate Crime"


12 posted on 01/24/2005 9:39:10 PM PST by Cinnamon
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To: indcons

Clearly Hudson County officials and the news media are playing "dumb" like a fox... running interferance for islamo-fasciast "hate criminals" to engage in their demonic practices here on our turf. Let something tragic happen to a muslim and we'll see how long it takes for them to see a hate crime.


13 posted on 01/24/2005 9:39:40 PM PST by kimosabe31
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To: fastattacksailor; jan in Colorado

Do I remember saying that the suspect imam who issued the fatwa on this family would be found somewhere in a nearby mosque, butt in the air praying to his god aka as allah?
Yes I do, I said it. I'm not a cop, my name's not Colombo, and now the evil, fat little bearded jerk in the filthy white shirt has flown the coop, not far behind the perpetrators, probably back to Saudi to reap his reward for being a good little wahhabi - the Coptic family are dead and very member of the ROP in the US has to live with the suspicion that it was one of them. And that's exactly how the wahhabi fanatics want us all to think. The imams want their people to be OPPRESSED.
Hey, it takes an awful lot of mosques and imams and money from Saudi to spread this evil propaganda. Kick out the IMPORTED IMAMS and there's some hope that the followers of the mohammadan creed will RUN AWAY FROM ISLAM AND ASSIMILATE.


14 posted on 01/24/2005 9:41:36 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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To: indcons

Time to tell Muslims to find another country to live in.


15 posted on 01/24/2005 9:43:57 PM PST by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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To: indcons

Amazing how little ice that new term "Islamophobia" cuts.

"You are an Islamophobe."

"And your point is?"


16 posted on 01/24/2005 9:44:55 PM PST by Uncle Vlad
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To: Fred Nerks

Check out my new posting on the Saudi Interior Minister's recent statement. If things weren't so dire, his claim would be hilarious. What a bunch of jokers, these Wahabbis and their religious bretheren.


17 posted on 01/24/2005 9:47:15 PM PST by indcons (The Quran - the world's first WMD)
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To: Former Dodger; fastattacksailor
You are correct Former Dodger.

This will not go away.

You and I both know this was not a robbery. Whether items were stolen or not.

This was an execution style murder and it WAS personal!

Do keep in mind though, that this is an active investigation and many details are not released to the media or to the public.
18 posted on 01/24/2005 9:48:13 PM PST by jan in Colorado (To defeat the enemy, you must first KNOW the enemy and then destroy it!)
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To: jan in Colorado

To my way of thinking, the most important facet of this terrible crime is where the instructions came from. Nothing can be carried out without the 'blessings' of an imam, who issues a fatwa. He is able to hide behind his 'religion' because after all, he is taking 'permission' from the koran.

The clerics are the scrourge behind this crime and behind all terrorism. Their teachings, their interpretations, all have their roots in Saudi wahhabi'ism, IMO.


19 posted on 01/24/2005 10:05:41 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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To: indcons

can you give me a link to the posting you refer to?


20 posted on 01/24/2005 10:07:53 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Understand Evil: Read THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD. Link on my Page. free pdf.)
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