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Can Bush Pardon Terri Schindler-Schiavo?
california republic ^ | 11/8/03 | Patterico

Posted on 01/24/2005 7:11:46 PM PST by eartotheground

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To: Allosaurs_r_us

What amazes me about this case is that Teri Schiavo is not being kept alive using artificial means, I.E. a respirator. She is being condemned to suffering a horrific death, (although her husband's lawyer and the courts disagree with the amount of suffering she will endure). We all need food and water to survive, so I guess we all are being kept alive "artificially". What have we become as a society when this case has gotten to this point? Is there no decency or humanity left in our legal system? Teri is simply another victim being denied her right to life. In my opinion this is what happens when abortion becomes a "mainstream" part of life. Unfortunately our society will continue to erode, and Teri Schialvo's battle will be in vain. God bless her and her family. It is a sad day indeed.


21 posted on 01/24/2005 9:23:07 PM PST by Kickass Conservative
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To: floriduh voter

Has Gov. Bush really thrown in the towel?


22 posted on 01/24/2005 9:26:17 PM PST by candeee
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To: eartotheground; floriduh voter; phenn; cyn; FreepinforTerri; kimmie7; Pegita; windchime; tutstar; ..

Terri ping! This is an idea, open for discussion.

If anyone would like to be added to or removed from my Terri ping list, please let me know here or by Freepmail.


23 posted on 01/24/2005 9:26:24 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: chas1776
Terri only chance to do something worth while in this society is to become an organ dornor.

Heck, there may be people saying the same thing about you...
24 posted on 01/24/2005 9:27:01 PM PST by beezdotcom (I'm usually either right or wrong...)
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To: trustandobey

You gotta' be kidding; no one has worked harder than Jeb Bush to save this woman's life. How many other governors would've put their political necks out for someone like Terri?


25 posted on 01/24/2005 9:30:38 PM PST by streetpreacher (There will be no Trolls in heaven.)
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To: candeee; All

When I listened to him speak, to me he sounded like they thought that Terri's law would be good enough. Since it wasn't, a more broad law would have to be crafted. I think he's willing to do his share if there is a huge outcry to the legislature to fix this horrific situation. Please call or write all members of the Florida Senate and House. If we bombard them again, they will act! Luckily, Jim King is no longer Senate President anymore, so it may work if we pull together.

While we're at it, calling the US Legislature would be a good idea, too. If Terri dies this way, it's coming to a state near you. All of us will be impacted, just like we deal with the consequences of Roe v. Wade every day.


26 posted on 01/24/2005 9:34:12 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: streetpreacher

IIRC, a Virginia governor did the same for Hugh Finn, but it didn't help that time either.


27 posted on 01/24/2005 9:36:21 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Ohioan from Florida

Wasn't Finn totally unconscious / brain dead? I don't know that these two cases are that comparable. Clearly this lady from those videos has brain activity and has a consciousness.


28 posted on 01/24/2005 9:38:00 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: Kickass Conservative
We all need food and water to survive, so I guess we all are being kept alive "artificially".

If any person is refused oral food and hydration, as well as gastrostomic food and hydration and all other forms as well, that person will die.

Perhaps if Michael were to allow someone to make a bona fide attempt at oral food and hydration, I might feel somewhat differently about this case, but since he has openly refused to allow any such efforts to be made, I have no words to express my feelings for that [bleep]-[bleep]ed [bleep]er [bleep]ing [bleep]-of-a-[bleep] [bleep] of [bleep].

Perhaps someone needs to file criminal charges against Michael on the basis that there is no legal basis for his refusal to allow oral feeding and hydration. That might be a Hail Mary, staking hopes upon the fact that she would be able to receive such, but it would seem as good a shot as any, especially since if Terri can receive oral feeding and hydration all excuse for trying to kill her vanishes.

29 posted on 01/24/2005 9:48:21 PM PST by supercat (To call the Constitution a 'living document' is to call a moth-infested overcoat a 'living garment'.)
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To: japaneseghost

It's been pulled twice. The last time I believe she was without food and water for seven days. Her organs were shutting down. The Florida passed Terri's law and the tube was re-inserted.

As far as swallowing food, the feeding tube is more for the convenience of the nursing staff. More than likely she could take food by mouth. She does not drool, but swallows her own saliva. Her husband banned her brother from visiting her for a period of time because he was caught feeding her pudding.


30 posted on 01/24/2005 9:51:19 PM PST by FR_addict
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To: japaneseghost
I wonder what the odds are in Vegas, that after the feeding tube is pulled, that she lives. It's been done before.

When in the last 1,900 years has anyone survived even a month without water?

If Michael were to allow bona fide efforts to feed and hydrate Terri orally, she might very well survive. But Michael has for many years forbidden all such efforts.

One proposal I suggested before, and perhaps should again: lock both Michael and Terri in separate rooms without food and water. If Michael outlasts Terri, he wins. If Terri outlasts Michael, then her parents get to take care of her.

If you want, be nice and offer Michael the option to concede if any any point during this contest he decides he wouldn't mind letting Terri live with her parents.

31 posted on 01/24/2005 9:56:00 PM PST by supercat (To call the Constitution a 'living document' is to call a moth-infested overcoat a 'living garment'.)
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To: Eagles6; beaversmom; Graymatter; Prince Charles; STARWISE; ZULU; danamco
"...Scalia, Thomas and Rhenquist said about this case..."

They don't want to even get near it, Eagles6!

I live about 10 blocks from the hospital where Terri lives, and Holy-Hell will break loose if they try to kill her again!

Activism will get a new meaning!

There IS hell-to-pay, and there are many collectors out here...............FRegards

32 posted on 01/24/2005 10:00:53 PM PST by gonzo (My eyes always water when I'm having sex.....It's probably that damned pepper spray........)
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To: STARWISE
"Neither you nor I are equipped to judge if her experience is "misery." "
 
Speak for yourself. I have been in the hospital enough to know just being in it is "misery". I would much rather be out and "about". If I were condemned to spend the rest of my life in that friggin bed I would just as soon my loved one's pulled the plug if I could not do it my self. They understand this. I have had 3 surgeries and there is always a risk. They were informed that under no circumstances were they to leave me in that friggin place. You make it sound as though she is in some kind of paradise that her mind has provided as she cannot communicate. There are no brain waves. Her mind cannot furnish anything. Sounds to me like she had voiced this opinion herself in the past. Now she is being used as a crutch for her parents because they cannot face letting her go. God has a better place for her. Would you deny her that?

33 posted on 01/24/2005 10:04:42 PM PST by Allosaurs_r_us (Idaho Carnivores for Conservatism)
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To: Republican Wildcat; MarMema

To be honest, I'd have to go back and check, and it's late so I won't tonight, but unless I have him mixed up with another case (which I could because I am totally wiped right now) Finn recuperated to the point that he could direct his own wheelchair, and many other things. I'll check back with you tomorrow, alright? Or else someone else can google Hugh Finn and find the details and post it to this thread. MarMema used to have a whole bunch of these cases in her profile page, but I haven't checked there lately.

MarMema, do you remember the details of Hugh Finn? My brain is getting fuzzy tonight. (Better not say that too loud. Next thing you know, Felos will come after me!)


34 posted on 01/24/2005 10:27:55 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: gonzo
Holy-Hell will break loose if they try to kill her again!

You bet your beans it will!

35 posted on 01/24/2005 10:32:57 PM PST by Ohioan from Florida (The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.- Edmund Burke)
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To: Allosaurs_r_us
If I were condemned to spend the rest of my life in that friggin bed I would just as soon my loved one's pulled the plug if I could not do it my self.

I'm sure Terri would rather be out and about than stuck in a hospice. Unfortunately, Michael forbids it. He has forbid any effort to be made to rehabilitate Terri, because he doesn't want her to get better. He has openly stated his desire and intention to marry another woman as soon as Terri is dead. To suggest that a person who has so renounced his wedding vows should have life-and-death over a woman he claims as his "wife" is to make a mockery of marriage.

36 posted on 01/24/2005 10:33:18 PM PST by supercat (To call the Constitution a 'living document' is to call a moth-infested overcoat a 'living garment'.)
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To: Ohioan from Florida

Well, he was a reporter for a Louisville TV station, so I am familiar with who he is - and that's what I seem to remember.


37 posted on 01/24/2005 10:48:50 PM PST by Republican Wildcat
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To: Allosaurs_r_us
You're speaking of your own misery ..you're entitled to choose death by starvation because you can comprehend and sign a paper that authorizes that. You certainly can't speak of Terri's situation as misery .. not when she reacts to her surroundings, to her parents and to stimuli. Her horrible state now is the direct result of the purposeful denial of therapeutic help, neglect, separation from the love of her family, and the obscene inhumanity of Michael Schiavo.

= = = = = = =

" Yes, it is true that when people are actively dying from terminal disease, they often refuse food and water. The disease makes the food and water repulsive to them. In such circumstances, it is medically inappropriate to force food and water into a person who is actively rejecting it. Indeed, doing so could cause suffering.

But this isn't what is happening to Terri. She isn't dying of cancer. Her body isn't shutting down as part of the natural dying process. Indeed, she is not dying at all--unless her food and water is taken away.

".........A conscious [cognitively disabled] person would feel it just as you or I would. They will go into seizures. Their skin cracks, their tongue cracks, their lips crack. They may have nosebleeds because of the drying of the mucus membranes, and heaving and vomiting might ensue because of the drying out of the stomach lining. They feel the pangs of hunger and thirst. Imagine going one day without a glass of water! Death by dehydration takes ten to fourteen days. It is an extremely agonizing death.

" " ........... After seven to nine days [from commencing dehydration] they begin to lose all fluids in the body, a lot of fluids in the body. And their blood pressure starts to go down. When their blood pressure goes down, their heart rate goes up. . . . Their respiration may increase and then . . . the blood is shunted to the central part of the body from the periphery of the body. So, that usually two to three days prior to death, sometimes four days, the hands and the feet become extremely cold.

They become mottled. That is you look at the hands and they have a bluish appearance. And the mouth dries a great deal, and the eyes dry a great deal and other parts of the body become mottled. And that is because the blood is now so low in the system it's shunted to the heart and other visceral organs and away from the periphery of the body . . ."

"MOST OF THE TIME, we never know for sure what a starved or dehydrated person experiences. But in at least one case--that of a young woman who had her tube feeding stopped for eight days and lived to tell the tale--we have direct evidence of the agony that forced dehydration may cause.

At age 33, Kate Adamson collapsed from a devastating and incapacitating stroke. She was utterly unresponsive and was diagnosed as being in a persistent vegetative state (PVS). Because of a bowel obstruction she developed, her nourishment was stopped so that doctors could perform surgery.

Adamson eventually recovered sufficiently to author "Kate's Journey: Triumph Over Adversity," in which she tells the terrifying tale. Rather than being unconscious with no chance of recovery as her doctors believed, she was actually awake and aware but unable to move any part of her body voluntarily. (This is known as a "locked-in state.") When she appeared recently on "The O'Reilly Factor," host Bill O'Reilly asked Adamson about the dehydration experience:

O'REILLY: When they took the feeding tube out, what went through your mind?

ADAMSON: When the feeding tube was turned off for eight days, I thought I was going insane. I was screaming out in my mind, "Don't you know I need to eat?" And even up until that point, I had been having a bagful of Ensure as my nourishment that was going through the feeding tube. At that point, it sounded pretty good. I just wanted something. The fact that I had nothing, the hunger pains overrode every thought I had.

O'REILLY: So you were feeling pain when they removed your tube?

ADAMSON: Yes. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. To say that--especially when Michael [Schiavo] on national TV mentioned last week that it's a pretty painless thing to have the feeding tube removed--it is the exact opposite. It was sheer torture, Bill.

O'REILLY: It's just amazing.

ADAMSON: Sheer torture . . .

A Painless Death?

= = = = = =

Her very existence is and has been controlled by her husband-in-name-only and his mistress. Once he got the money, she was disposable. She is not on life support, she is not dying from any terminal disease. Her murder would be a direct result of the intentional starvation and dehydration by the removal of the feeding tube .. which is her only source of nourishment since her guardian has denied her even the basic mercy of swallowing therapy.

Would you choose this death for yourself, for a parent, for a child, for a dog if they weren't naturally rejecting life sustaining nourishment?

The unspeakable evil of Judge Greer, Michael Schiavo and George Felos will NEVER BE FORGOTTEN. God says: "justice is Mine" ... and so it is and shall be.

38 posted on 01/24/2005 11:01:33 PM PST by STARWISE
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To: Allosaurs_r_us
God has a better place for her. Would you deny her that?

If the only way she can get to that "better place" is by being starved to death, then it would seem that God is denying her that better place, wouldn't it? Otherwise, why wouldn't He simply call her home?

39 posted on 01/24/2005 11:26:53 PM PST by streetpreacher (There will be no Trolls in heaven.)
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To: Allosaurs_r_us

I would just add that this issue is not a simple one that affords pat answers; I can sympathize with your emotions on this one. But if we are going to err on one side, wouldn't prudence suggest that we err on the side of life?


40 posted on 01/24/2005 11:28:45 PM PST by streetpreacher (There will be no Trolls in heaven.)
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