Passengers crowded trains today at the Atlantic Avenue station in Brooklyn.
Angel Franco/The New York Times
It's hard to see how repairs could take 3-5 years. That must be a blue-state thing that those of us in the heartland don't understand.
Posted on 01/24/2005 3:05:35 PM PST by 68skylark
A subway fire that gutted an underground communications room has crippled two of New York City's busiest subway lines, the A and the C, and full service may not be restored for three to five years, officials announced today.
The Sunday afternoon fire at the Chambers Street station was apparently set by a homeless person and is being investigated as an act of arson, according to Lawrence G. Reuter, president of New York City Transit.
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The A train has been running at two-thirds of its normal frequency, meaning that riders face a wait of 8 to 12 minutes. Service on the C line, which normally runs from 168th Street in Washington Heights, Manhattan, to Euclid Avenue in East New York, Brooklyn, has been suspended indefinitely.
In addition, the transit agency continued to grapple today with the aftermath of the weekend snowstorm.
Ice on elevated tracks has shut down several stations on the F and G lines. As of noon today, the F was running in two sections, between 179th Street in Queens and Jay Street in Brooklyn, and between Church and Stillwell Avenues in Brooklyn. Bus service was being provided between Church Avenue and Jay Street.
The G train was operating between Court Square in Queens, and Bedford and Nostrand Avenues in Brooklyn, but there was no service on three Brooklyn stations that are exclusively served by the G.
Officials said the Chambers Street fire destroyed about 600 signal relays, switches and circuits used to route trains through the subway tunnels, and caused the worst damage to subway equipment since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
"It is going to have long-term, significant impacts on the riders of the A and C," Mr. Reuter said.
The last time a station was so badly damaged by fire was on March 11, 1999, and that station, at Bergen Street on the F and G lines, was less critical to the subway system than the transit node at Chambers Street. "This is going to have a more significant impact than Bergen Street," Mr. Reuter said.
The fire began on the northern end of the platform used by the A and C trains at Chambers Street, and quickly spread along overhead electrical wires into a locked signal relay room about 6 feet north of the platform.
Firefighters took several hours to put the fire out. Most of that time was spent waiting to make sure that electricity to the relay room had been turned off.
"The room was basically totally destroyed, and all the relays and wires were gutted," Mr. Reuter told members of the Metropolitan Transportation Authority's board who had assembled for a previously scheduled committee meeting.
Near the charred ruins of the signal equipment, investigators found 2-by-4-foot wooden blocks in a shopping cart, according to Assistant Chief Henry R. Cronin III, the commanding officer of the transit bureau of the New York Police Department. The investigators surmised that a homeless person had ignited the blocks to try to keep warm.
"I don't think it was an intentional act of arson," Chief Cronin said.
Much of the equipment dated to the construction of the Independent City-Owned Rapid Transit Railroad, nearly all of which was built between 1924 and 1937. The city's subway lines were consolidated in 1940.
Mr. Reuter acknowledged that the fire highlighted the delicate nature of the subway system. Its carefully calibrated signals and lines rely on decades-old mechanical equipment. "We've said all along the system is extremely vulnerable, all the time," he said.
A transportation authority board member, Andrew B. Albert, asked Mr. Reuter at the public meeting whether fireproofing of signal equipment was possible.
"I don't think there's an easy solution to stop these types of fires," Mr. Reuter responded. He said that the relay room had been locked and that the shopping cart was found in an area that is clearly off-limits to the public.
Passengers crowded trains today at the Atlantic Avenue station in Brooklyn.
Angel Franco/The New York Times
It's hard to see how repairs could take 3-5 years. That must be a blue-state thing that those of us in the heartland don't understand.
Take the A flat Train
The biggest challenge in this city is making repairs like this while at the same time trying to operate the subway system as close to a normal level of service as possible. If the city were willing to shut down these lines completely, it would take much less time to do the repairs. But shutting down those lines means bringing large sections of the city to a grinding halt.
This fire was this weekend??
Geez.
That makes some sense.
Still, I bet that a private sector contractor could get the job done a whole lot faster than 3-5 years, even with the trains running at the same time. (They'd probably be a lot cheaper, too. That's just my guess. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.)
Yeah, I guess it was yesterday (Sunday).
I can't believe the whole C line is shut down. What a disaster.
--I think I have a glimmer of understanding. You can probably start with utility management who are totally political and then throw in a separate union local for nearly every switch, relay or splice---
It's a govt. job, 5 years is the good news.
Another issue they face is that the city's subway system is so old. It works extremely well for a system of its age, but when you replace major elements of the signal/communications system you can't just go out and buy new components off the shelf -- you have to replace additional things that may be in good working order just so they'd be compatible with new hardware.
Having said that, I think 3-5 years does seem like an awfully long time the more I think about it. It took just over two years to get the PATH station under the World Trade Center in Lower Manhattan back open after 9/11.
Union workers!!!!
In the 1950's & 1960's, I rode the NYC subways frequently, and later designed motors for a subway system ventilation upgrade. Technically, the subways are a "neat" idea.
Mass transit systems are an artifact of the past, as is NYC. The real problem with mass transit is really personal safety. Modern electronic systems can help there also, but in extremity, it comes done to individual action - you've got to fight the threat. That idea was "shot" down in NYC years ago, when self-defense was still OK in most places.
But that's where modern electronics can simplify the job. It's sometimes better to start with a high-level overview, and a whole new system.
Will Bloomberg prosecute the homeless firebug for "smoking" inside a city facility?
This is scary, folks. As an NYC resident, I was under the impression that security cameras, etc were in place to detect this type of stuff before it results in ruin. If an al Queda operative got into that room of equipment at 8:30 am on a Monday morning, he probably could've engineered a giant subway crash along the lines of the Moorgate disaster in London back in the early 80s.
This is another example of Bloomberg's utter incompetence at running a major city. A spineless left-wing dwarf who spends 90% of his time villifying tobacco smokers, grandstanding against the 2d Amendmenent, and clamoring NY taxpayers to fork over a billion dollars for a stadium that will host 8 football games per year. Likewise, the anti-American incompetent scumbags on the City Council waste time passing useless resolutions against the Iraq war while their own city remains woefully unprepared for terrorist attacks. Mark my words, the city will be hit again, and hit hard, with these morons running the show.
Remember the big LA earthquake (Loma Prieta I believe) back in the early 90's. The highways including I-5 the major north south interstate were out - major bridges totally destroyed.
Early estimates were that the repairs would take 2 to 3 years. California Governer Pete Wilson insisted on including "large" performance bonuses in the repair contracts for the major bridges.
The contractor on the main I-5 bridge repair (Santa Clarita) ended up completing the job in something like 7 months - working crews around the clock, 7 days a week.
He made more money in bonuses than on the original bid! Everyone was exstatic.
The capitalist system is an incentive system - New York State ought to try it! But Elliott Spitzer would have a fit!
heh - they fixed the buckled 10 freeway at Robertson Blvd in about 10 days ...
I suspect the 3 to 5 year quote is intended to build pressure in favor of continuing plans to build a Second Avenue subway. I believe the fire was started by some nut, and the damage was indeed serious; but I think also that the unions are using this to push for another subway lines (more jobs, more graft).
The problem is that in New York City, it will take 7 months just to put the project out for bid.
There's probably some grandstanding and hoping for federal funds here. I doubt it will take 3-5 years. The governor has proposed a direct rail link from Lower Manhattan to Kennedy Airport, using the same tunnel the A train does to go from Lower Manhattan to Downtown Brooklyn. He even tried to divert some of the 9/11 funds to it in the name of "rebuilding" what was never there in the first place. This 3-5 year estimate may be an excuse to get the project funded and built. Just a guess.
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