Doctors, Others Deride Chiropractic School

AP ^ | 1/16/05 | BRENT KALLESTAD

[anniegetyourgun]

TALLAHASSEE, Florida (AP) -

Some Florida State University professors have been circulating a parody map showing the campus of the future, with a new Bigfoot Institute, a School of Astrology and a Crop Circle Simulation Laboratory.

It's a not-so-subtle jab in a growing debate over a proposal to build a chiropractic college on this campus - the first such school at a public university in the United States.

More than 500 professors, including the university's two Nobel laureates, have signed a petition opposing the school and a handful have even threatened to resign rather than teach alongside what they consider a "pseudoscience."

The dispute - the biggest academic furor in recent memory at Florida State - is heading to a showdown decision later this month, pitting FSU faculty and doctors against chiropractors and powerful lawmakers who pushed the $9 million (euro7 million) proposal through the Legislature.

T.K. Wetherell, the normally blunt president of Florida State, has been unusually reticent on the chiropractic flap, deferring to his provost.

"There's a small number of faculty who would like it to happen, there is another group of faculty who would like it to die as painful a death as possible, and then there's another group that has a lot of concerns that they would like answered before anything else happens," provost Larry Abele said.

Supporters of the school, which would add 100 faculty members, say the affiliation with a major university would quickly make it the nation's premier program and a magnet for federal grants in alternative medicine.

But the parody map sums up the views of many faculty - and physicians. They worry that chiropractic isn't based on real science and that such a program could hurt the university's academic reputation.

Last week, the faculty committee that oversees curriculum voted 22-0 to stop the proposed chiropractic program until it at least had a say-so in the decision.

"There's no demonstrated need. We have more chiropractors than any other state except California and New York," said Ray Bellamy, a local orthopedic surgeon and associate at the medical school.

For now, the 38,000 students at Florida State have largely stayed on the sidelines in the debate, although a few exercise physiology majors have spoken out in support of the school.

For chiropractors, the issue is bigger than just the fight at Florida State. It's part of an ongoing battle to win respect and credibility in the medical community for their profession. A chiropractic school at FSU would supply a long sought affiliation with an established university and a major boost.

Chiropractic, which focuses on manipulating the spine to lessen back pain and improve overall health, has won wider acceptance over the years; it's now covered by most health insurance plans.

But in the 110 years since the profession was created, the established medical community has largely boycotted it - challenging its scientific validity in courts and legislative bodies. In 1990, the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals found the American Medical Association guilty of conspiracy to destroy the profession.

"Chiropractic falls under the same umbrella as any number of therapies including homeopathy, naturopathy, meditation, prayer," said Dr. Bill Kinsinger, an Oklahoma anesthesiologist and longtime critic of chiropractors who is working with Florida doctors to block the new school. "There's no more evidence for chiropractic than there is for any of these other therapies."

The Florida Chiropractic Association says it's unfair for opponents to try to deny them the opportunity to create the school.

"On the one hand, they say there is no science behind what we do," said John Van Tassel, a Tallahassee chiropractor who tends to Florida State's football players. "At the same time, they're trying to prevent the very research (at a university) they say is needed."

The university system's Board of Governors, which faces a decision on the standoff Jan. 27. The fledgling board, which was created in 2002, has been accused of bowing to the wishes of the governor and the legislature on higher education issues.

While not an outspoken supporter, Gov. Jeb Bush signed off on the chiropractic school proposal in the last legislative session to appease the House speaker and Senate president.

_________________________

A CRACK AT RESPECT: Chiropractors helped push through the Florida Legislature a plan to build what would be the first chiropractic school at a public U.S. university.

GETTING THEIR BACKS UP: More than 500 Florida State University professors oppose bringing what they consider "pseudoscience" to their campus.

NERVOUS SYSTEM: The battle could determine who really controls the state's public university system: its Board of Governors, individual universities' trustees or the Legislature.

[Peelod]

http://www.canoe.ca/ChiroYork/home.html

The last few months have been tough on chiropractic in Canada and the next few may be a whole lot worse.

First, members of the chiropractic community were hit with a $12-million lawsuit over a stroke death that resulted from a chiropractic manipulation.

Then, a Toronto neurologist announced that the early results of his study suggest chiropractic neck manipulation may be the largest cause of vertebral dissection which is the major cause of strokes in Canadians under 45.
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[More]

[anniegetyourgun]

It sells everything else.....why not Chiropractic?!?!

[UseYourHead]

There's usually a Board of Chiropractic for each area and they can be consulted for recommnedations. A reputable sports medicine clinic should also know who to go to. For me, I needed someone who has knowledge of the Gonstead System as straight Palmer was not helping.

[sarasota]

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.

[sarasota]

I was quite advanced in years before I realized all doctors do is prescribe drugs and perform surgeries. Guess if one likens drugs to good health, that's going to work. But that's when I started concentrating on a better lifestyle.

[reagandemo]

[RipSawyer]

<<<<<That's basically a hit-piece which could have been written by the PR department of any Doctors Union. The article is all smoke and no fire. All allegation and conjecture. But it would do well on any Jeraldo show.<<<<<

Floyd R Right about that, I believe.

[theFIRMbss]

[rlmorel]

heh, I LOVE that graphic...nice job! Do you mind if I use it on occasion, or would you like to reserve it for your own use?

It sure does give me a laugh when I see it...reminds me of the pained look my dad used to get when we were being really dumb asses as kids...:)

[rlmorel]

And...we are supposed to believe anything coming down from the great socialized medicine north of Canada?

Sorry...only kidding!

[Bushforlife]

Chiropractors are quacks. If someone has a sore neck or back, and they get a massage [adjustment], they are likely to feel better. Since most acute back/neck pain episodes resolve spontaneously within 7-10 days, of course chiropractors can claim that their "therapy" was responsible for the "cure". And of course if a patient is told that a particular treatment is designed to make them better, a certain percentage will improve no matter what the treatment consists of [placebo effect].

Modern medicine is NOT limited to surgery and medication prescription. Physical therapy is routinely prescribed for neck/back problems. A whole specialty of Pain Control has evolved to deal with the chronic pain of neck/back disease. Chronic neck/back pain is VERY hard to control, hence the emergence of a pseudoscience like Chiropractic.

As for the "modern medicine can cause people harm" posts, the posters show an amazing degree of lack of understanding of the complexity of medical treatment. For instance, one poster cited an allergic reaction to an antibiotic as an example of modern medicine causing illness. If a patient is found to have a pneumonia, that patient needs an antibiotic to recover. There is no may to predict if a patient will have an allergic reaction to an antibiotic. What would you have the physician do, refuse to prescribe the life saving antibiotic for fear that the patient will have an allergic reaction? All drugs have the potential for side effects; thats the fault of REALITY, not modern medicine.

Consider this situation: you go to your doctor and are diagnosed as having very high blood pressure. You do not respond to a low salt diet. You are told what has been shown in SCIENTIFIC studies, that you are at high risk of having a stroke or a heart attack as a result of untreated high blood pressure. You are told that you have to take blood pressure medication, and that ALL MEDICATION HAS SIDE EFFECTS, which are listed for you. Choice A: refuse to take medication, and play the odds that you will have a disabling illness as a consequence. Choice B: take the medication and play the odds that you may have a side effect to the medication, but a much lower risk of stroke/heart attack. Which will you choose?

All of modern medicine consists of this choice, which basically is to offer the patient a lower risk therapy to avoid the higher risk of the disease. In real life, there is absolutely no therapy without side effects; there is no food to which someone won't be allergic, and there is no car that can't suddenly break down in traffic. So if you are told you have an illness, go ahead and refuse any treatment without side effects, and you will therefore do without treatment. Such is the nature of the real world.

[Michael.SF.]

a handful have even threatened to resign rather than teach alongside what they consider a "pseudoscience."

Two comments:

There i$ one primary rea$on Doctor$ are oppo$$ed to Chiropractor$.

Other then drugs or surgery what are a Doctor's options when it comes to back pain? Answer: virtually none

[Bushforlife]

Please see my post #53.

So according to your logic, if a practitioner wishes to shake a rattle and dance around the patients' bed as a treatment, then the only reason doctors oppose that treatment is for financial concerns.

I think that in truth, the opposite is what is really happening. There is an illness that is very hard to treat, so a pseudoscience has evolved which claims it has the answers. For money.

[anniegetyourgun]

Ah yes, the secrets of the universe....I'd recognize them anywhere....

[Michael.SF.]

So according to your logic, if a practitioner wishes to shake a rattle and dance around the patients' bed as a treatment, then the only reason doctors oppose that treatment is for financial concerns.

Don't be an ass.

This thread is specifically about Chiropractors. I believe they have a long enough track record in the US and a longer one in Europe to be taken as a serious alternative to drugs and or surgery.

[anniegetyourgun]

See #25. I was young a foolish back then. Once was enough.

[Bushforlife]

I think there would be a difference of opinion about who is being an a**. You made an accusation that physicians oppose chiropractors for financial reasons. I pointed out that physicians would oppose ANY questionable sham treatment, and their objection would be that the treatment is bogus.

The track record you refer to is a record of holding out false hope to victims of a terrible disease resistance to therapy. It is a record of deceiving people in pain, similar to the Medicine Shows of the 19th century. It is a record of collecting money from the desperate, who indeed have been around a long time both in the US and Europe.

[Old Professer]

When I first moved here 10 years ago, my neighbor's father, a Vietnam vet, was staying with them and being treated in a group of vets to determine the validity of Agent Orange medical problems while also being treated for diabetes.

He developed a nagging ache in his neck that limited his movement and caused him a great deal of discomfort and the VA docs couldn't figure out the cause but they didn't object when he went to a chiropractor several times a week for about a month or so.

Finally, the VA gave him a full head and neck scan and discovered a rapid-growth tumor.

He was scheduled for corrective surgery, etc. when he died of a stroke.