Posted on 01/17/2005 1:50:05 AM PST by kattracks
Newly revealed evidence suggests the family slaughtered in their Jersey City home were victims of a robbery - though cops have not ruled out a more personal motive.Hossam Armanious, 47; his wife, Amal Garas, 37, and daughters Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were bound, gagged and stabbed in the throat last week. Cops found them Friday after worried relatives hadn't seen them for days.
While the Egyptian Coptic Christian family was clearly robbed, police have not ruled out other possible motives. Friends of the family suspect the family may have been targeted for religious reasons.
And Channel 7 reported last night that a relative of the family had helped prosecutors in the case against Lynne Stewart, the lawyer charged with passing messages to followers of one of her clients, convicted terror kingpin Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman.
Prosecutors said yesterday the killer or killers appeared to have taken all the money from the house, except for a single penny found on the floor.
"The father's wallet had been emptied, and his pockets had been turned out," said First Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Guy Gregory. "Even the daughter's pocketbook was turned out."
Some in the community believe the family was targeted because Armanious, a headwaiter at a New Jersey hotel, was active on a Web site where Copts and Muslims trade angry religious arguments.
"They're trying to make us afraid, make us keep our mouths shut," said Nadia Sourial, 55, a parishioner at St. George & St. Shenouda Coptic Orthodox Church.
Coptic community leaders announced a $100,000 reward for information leading to convictions in the murders. But church leaders and the victims' relatives tried to stop accusations yesterday during services.
"It's not time to make any speculations," said Bishop David, 37, a Coptic leader. "This is the time for the police."
The victims had crosses tattooed on their right wrists. But authorities said a cut near Sylvia's tattoo appeared to be a defensive wound, not a deliberate attack on the cross.
"I'm going through hell," said Garas' brother Ayman Garas, 35. "They were very peaceful. They had no enemies, were not involved with any problems."
Hundreds of people filled the church to hear the services in English and Arabic before 100 or so walked to the family's home on Oakland Ave. to pay respects to the slain.
"We do not have the proof, but the crime was committed in a certain way, the way Muslim fanatics kill people," said Monir Dawoud, spokesman for the American Coptic Association, who made a fiery speech during the memorial.
But some local Muslim leaders said Egyptian Christians and Muslims get along reasonably well in Jersey City. The leaders said they planned to attend the family's funeral today.
"I don't think this is religious at all," said Osama Hassan, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "Maybe a few young Christian kids might have the wrong idea, but I think their leaders will set them straight."
Originally published on January 17, 2005
I wonder if there are any Homeland Security types involved in the family's murder investigation?
I would certainly hope so.
This seems very extreme for someone to just steal a few wallets. And it doesn't sound to me like it could have been done by one person unless they had a gun. And yet then they used knives.
The two personalities of Islam: One kills and the other denies (lies)
Pretty nifty little plan, if you ask me.
If Americans don't get off their butts and take action, we are going to lose everything to this pack of liars and killers.
There is a time for peace and a time for war. And, until Islam is no more, this is war.
What's the status of Stewart's case, do you recall?
Friends of the family suspect the family may have been targeted for religious reasons.Dat's some religion they've got there, if so .....
That's just what I thought. What a headline.
A headless body in NJ? Any link to that bizzarro story?
The were saying that on my local news
Here you go:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1322201/posts
Seems that way, doesn't it.
'ISLAMIC HATE' EYED IN SLAYSBy DOUGLAS MONTERO and STEFAN C. FRIEDMAN
January 16, 2005 -- The father of a murdered New Jersey family was threatened for making anti-Muslim remarks online and the gruesome quadruple slaying may have been the hateful retaliation, sources told The Post yesterday. Hossam Armanious, 47, who along with his wife and two daughters was found stabbed to death in his Jersey City home early Friday, would regularly debate religion in a Middle Eastern chat room, one source said.
Armanious, an Egyptian Christian, was well known for expressing his Coptic beliefs and engaging in fiery back-and-forth with Muslims on the Web site paltalk.com.
He "had the reputation for being one of the most outspoken Egyptian Christians," said the source, who had close ties to the family.
The source, who had knowledge of the investigation, refused to specify the anti-Muslim statement. But he said cops told him they were looking into the exchanges as a possible motive.
The married father of two had recently been threatened by Muslim members of the Web site, said a fellow Copt and store clerk who uses the chat room.
"You'd better stop this bull---- or we are going to track you down like a chicken and kill you," was the threat, said the clerk, who was online at the time and saw the exchange.
But Armanious refused to back down, according to two sources who use the Web site.
Jersey City Mayor Jerramiah Healy would neither confirm nor deny that cops and prosecutors were looking into the religion motive, saying only that "nothing is being ruled out." But a relative of the mayor who answered the phone at Healy's home said there was information the murders were "religion-related."
"There are several theories we are looking into, but we are not commenting on any of them at this time," said Hudson County Assistant Prosecutor Guy Gregory.
Armanious' fervor apparently rubbed off on his daughter, Sylvia who would have turned 16 yesterday.
"She was very religious and very opinionated," said Jessica Cimino, 15, a fellow sophomore at Dickenson HS.
A family member who viewed photos of the bloodbath said Sylvia seemed to have taken the most savage punishment.
"When we saw the pictures, you could tell that they were hurt really, really bad in the face; especially Sylvia," said Milad Garas, the high-school sophomore's great-uncle.
The heartless killer not only slit Sylvia's throat, but also sliced a huge gash in her chest and stabbed her in the wrist, where she had a tattoo of a Coptic cross.
Also found murdered were the wife, Amal Garas, and the parents' other daughter, Monica.
Fred Ayed, the deacon at St. George and St. Shenouda Church, where the deeply religious family attended services, said he's worried that the murders could have a ripple effect.
"I am concerned for the safety of our community," said Ayed, who knew Hossam for 30 years. "People are scared because one family was slain like cows," said Moheb Ghabour, publisher of a local newspaper for the Coptic community.
Osama Hassan, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City, described the relationship between Copts and Muslims as cooperative if not friendly.
"I think there might be people that can get into physical fights, but not to the point of murder," Hassan said.
Both the deacon and uncle poured cold water on the theory that the family were the victims of a robbery gone wrong.
"This is not a robbery, Ayed said. "We found all of the jewelry in the house. They didn't take anything."
The FBI confirmed it has been called in to help with the case.
What crap...this is a war on Islam...and, so far, Islam is winning.
You have to be pretty cold hearted to kill someone in cold blood, let alone a 15 and 8 year old girl. Let's hope they catch the killers before they strike again.
I'm afraid we're going to find ourselves in a situation like the DC Sniper case, where the PC refusal to describe the snipers (who had initially been described by witness as black or dark-skinned males), combined with a politically motived desire not to admit that the perpetrators were probably Muslims, will result in more people being killed.
Taqiyya and kitman: The role of Deception in Islamic terrorism
That's where it's at! Jihadwatch talks about these two Muslim tactics all the time
http://www.ci-ce-ct.com/Feature%20articles/02-12-2002.asp
Taqiyya and kitman: The role of Deception in Islamic terrorism Tradecraft. Persona. Deception. Disinformation. Cover: Western operational terms and techniques. But, Islamic terrorists have their own terms: taqiyya (pronounced tark-e-ya) : precautionary dissimulation or deception and keeping ones convictions secret and a synonymous term, kitman: mental reservation and dissimulation or concealment of malevolent intentions... Taqiyya and kitman or holy hypocrisy has been diffused throughout Arabic culture for over fourteen hundred years since it was developed by Shiites as a means of defence and concealment of beliefs against Sunni unbelievers. As the Prophet said: 'he who keeps secrets shall soon attain his objectives. The skilful use of taqiyya and kitman was often a matter of life and death against enemies; it is also a matter of life and death to many contemporary Islamic terrorists. As so often in the history of Islam, a theological doctrine became operational. During the Spanish inquisition, Sunni Moriscos attended mass and returned home to wash their hands of the holy water. In operational terms, taqiyya and kitman allowed the mujahadeen to assume whatever identity was necessary to fulfill their mission; they had doctrinal and theological and later jurisprudential sanction to pretend to be Jews or Christians to gain access to Christian and Jewish targets: the mujahadeen can take the shape of the enemy. Taqiyya is common to both Shiite and Sunni Muslim discourse and has significant implications for understanding Islamic fundamentalism and terrorist operations. The theory and practice of counter terrorism would be counter productive, indeed pointless, and even harmful, without reference to taqiyya and kitman and the crucial role of deception ranging from Islamic jurisprudence to Al Qaeda training manuals, which carry detailed instructions on the use of deception by terrorists in Western target countries. According to Christian ethics lying is a sin; In Islamic jurisprudence and theology, the use of taqiyya against the unbelievers is regarded as a virtue and a religious duty.
Like many Islamic concepts taqiyya and kitman were formed within the context of the Arab-Islamic matrix of tribalism, expansionary warfare and conflict. Taqiyya has been used by Muslims since the 7th century to confuse and split 'the enemy. A favored tactic was deceptive triangulation; to persuade the enemy that jihad was not aimed at them but at another enemy. Another tactic was to deny that there was jihad at all. The fate for such faulty assessments by the target was death. Sydney NSW Australia: 2 November 2002 Sheik Taj el-Din al Hilaly, the controversial Grand Mufti of Australia, is enjoying lunch with his trusted assistant Keysar Trad. The journalist writing of the meeting with the Sheik noted: 'Several times, when direct responses to questions about passages in the Koran begged a simple yes or no, both men preferred to avoid the issues by talking about the difficulties of translating passages from Arabic to English. Referring to the Sheikhs blithe dismissal of his virulent anti-Semitic remarks in 1998, the journalist reflected: 'I can only muse at the facility of my guest, who has also praised suicide bombers in more recent times, to dismiss his notorious and abominable remarks with such ease and without actual apology. It seems clear that he is considering the way his remarks will be construed by the Sunday Telegraphs huge and influential audience when they are translated into Arabic for Muslims to debate. Hes walking a tightrope.' The skilled journalist should not be puzzled as the Sheik's target audiences were Australians and not Arab readers. Taqiyya, or dissimulation, is a key feature in Islamic public discourse and confuses Western audiences. It is meant to, according to the Koran: 'Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers; if any do that; they shall have no relation left with Allah except by way of precaution .that ye may guard yourselves. 3:28 Al Taqiyya is with tongue only; not the heart. A believer can make any statement as long as the heart is comfortable'. The 9/11 terrorists lived and visited in the United States for two years before the 9/11 attacks. How did they acculturate? By the use of taqiyya. Meaning: I hate you but I smile at you-in public. Taqiyya and Outwitting in contemporary political discourse and debates Outwitting: Islamic spokesmen commonly use taqiyya as a form of outwitting. The matter under discussion is not to be debated or discussed; rather the opponent is to outwitted through taqiyya, by diversion of the subject and obfuscation aided at times with a mystical reference to God or Allah. The claim that difficulties in translating from Arabic to English make communication with non-Arab speakers difficult or impossible, is another form of outwitting. The tactical use of a translator offers considerable advantage. Role playing as victim: Claiming to be 'the victim of religious discrimination and intolerance during debate or discussion is another form of distraction and outwitting. Manipulating ambiguity: Sheik Hilaly of Sydney, Australia is on public record as (a) condemning the 9/11 attacks in ambiguous terms and (b) praising suicide and martyr operations However, Islamic spokesmen will rarely condemn a specific act of terrorism and direct questions will be skillfully evaded. Diversion: For example, questions relating to the 9/11 terrorists attacks will be diverted by a causally irrelevant counter reference to the plight of the Palestinians, the nefarious role of Israel and US foreign policy and support for Israel as causes of terrorism. Anti-Semitism, a core belief of Islamic fundamentalism is also skillfully diverted by misleading and exaggerated historical references to the alleged status enjoyed by Jews and non-believers under Islamic rule, thereby deflecting critical examination of the virulent contemporary Islamic anti-Semitism. Demanding evidence: Islamic spokesmen practice a form of taqiyya defined in psychology as cognitive denial by repetitive and extreme requests for evidence and proof of alleged terrorist acts, which they know cannot be disclosed. Tactical denial: Rather than admitting that a proposition concerning a state of affairs can be partly true, an Islamic spokesman will deny a claim or proposition in absolute terms. For example, It is impossible to be a Muslim and a terrorist , which is false and Islam forbids suicide, which is true, but irrelevant as suicide or martyrdom attacks are not forbidden in the Koran. Exploiting cognitive dissonance: Islamic spokesman tend to be baffle television interviewers and puzzle viewers as they resort to double talk clichés and platitudes concerning Islam. A state of cognitive dissonance-holding two contradictory beliefs and attempting to resolve them- is induced in viewers as they attempt to process the claim that Islam is a peaceful religion with the dissonant facts of Islamic terrorist acts and operations. The Islamic defence script: Islamic spokesmen repeat the same predictable platitudes concerning Islam in London as do Islamic spokesmen in Seattle and often appear to follow a prepared script from Islam is tolerant and peace loving to the claim by Islamic spokeswomen invariably claiming that wearing the veil offers them more freedom (women in Muslim countries are therefore freer than women in western countries), thereby precluding further examination into the real status of women under Islamic rule. Islamic platitudes are also echoed uncritically by Western politicians, for example A small group of fundamentalists have hijacked a great religion. The timely, skilful, misleading and diversionary theme of the hijacking of Islam was introduced into public, political and media discourse by an Islamic spokesmen in the United States shortly after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. The Islam has been hijacked diversionary theme is now a conventional media and political reference deflecting attention from empirical and historical examination of the doctrinal, political and religious continuity of Islamic terrorism. A related theme that a small minority of Muslims are engaged in terrorism is utterly irrelevant as Islamic terrorism is always perpetrated by small minorities or more accurately small groups. Taqiyya as impressions and perceptions management The tactical use of children: Australia television viewers noted that interviews with terrorist suspects raided by security authorities invariably featured veiled women holding small children or a baby as they protested their husbands innocence and attested to his innate goodness. Trembling fingers pointed to damage to the family residence. In some interviews the suspect / father holds the child, whilst denying involvement or knowledge of terrorism in any sense of the word: an example of taqiyya in the age of impressions and perception management. Taqiyya and the Deceptive use of Jihad: The contemporary political meaning of jihad is clear: it is Jihad of the sword. Egyptian-based Islamic fundamentalists, from whom Bin Laden recruited his key operatives, believe jihad is the fourth pillar of Islam and is a binding belief and integral to the faith. Claiming that Jihad is a subjective and psychological state of personal struggle is taqiyya. In contemporary terms, Jihad means - holy war - against unbelievers and it in this context that Al Qaeda training manuals refer to Jihad as Holy War. The study of taqiyya and kitman is crucial to an understanding of Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism ranging from the issuing of false terrorist threats, operational and strategic disinformation issued by Al Qaeda in the form of intelligence chatter to the use of taqiyya and kitman by terrorists during interrogation and the use of systematically misleading expressions concerning Islam and terrorism by Muslim spokesmen.
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I was thinking perhaps Chief Moose had gone to Jersey.
I smell a cover up--BIG TIME!
From the NY Post article yesterday.
I don't believe this daily news story either. Smacks of Political Correctness.
(Now it appears also a robbery did occur at the time of the killings.)
====================================================
"We do not have the proof, but the crime was committed in a certain way, the way Muslim fanatics kill people," said Monir Dawoud, spokesman for the American Coptic Association, who made a fiery speech during the memorial.
And the Muslim response . .
"I don't think this is religious at all," said Osama Hassan, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "Maybe a few young Christian kids might have the wrong idea, but I think their leaders will set them straight."
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