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To: B4Ranch
"For the 'hawk' that you say you are, you don't seem to mind forfeiting our sovereignty to the UN piece by piece. Now if that isn't continual appeasement I don't know what is?"

Pay attention. I'm not forfeiting *any* of our sovereignty. Quite the contrary, I'm mapping out how best to save it.

As I said earlier, IF WITHDRAWING FROM THE UN would kill it, then I'd be all for withdrawing.

But we'd have less success in shrinking the UN's other member states than France has had in shrinking our coalition of nations partnering with us in Iraq.

So your idea to withdraw from the UN wouldn't kill the UN, and that would leave us in the awful geo-political position of having surrendered our UN veto, to boot. We'd be out of the UN, but everyone else would still be in it. Every anti-U.S. and anti-Israeli UN resolution would pass with super-majorities at that point.

Our nominal and marginal allies would be bullied, one at a time, economically, politically, socially, and militarily under one by one they renounced the U.S. and Israel and switched sides or played "neutral."

That's what giving up our UN veto would accomplish.

Now, do I want the UN to be crushed and dismembered and forgotten by history? Yes.

But you haven't shown me a way to do that yet. The U.S. merely leaving it would be like the U.S. leaving NATO...you'd have the EU replace it without blinking an eye.

So until you show me a viable way to kill the UN, we'd best keep our UN veto power.

Unlike you, I don't want to be convinced by wild-eyed liberals to surrender that veto by withdrawing from the UN.

Should such a thing happen, there would be spontaneous parties break out in San Francisco and NYC among the liberal cocktail party elite...all of whom would giggle about how the Right just made a grave mistake.

75 posted on 01/16/2005 4:32:35 PM PST by Southack (Media Bias means that Castro won't be punished for Cuban war crimes against Black Angolans in Africa)
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To: Southack

Do you understand what the result of signing a treaty is?

Shared sovereignty!

>>Our nominal and marginal allies would be bullied,<<

and shortly thereafter they would request that they join with us in a new organization to fight the UN's actions. Have you forgotten that the free world is stronger than all the third world countries combined.


77 posted on 01/16/2005 4:39:20 PM PST by B4Ranch (Don't remain seated until this ride comes to a full and complete stop! We're going the wrong way!)
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To: Southack
and that would leave us in the awful geo-political position of having surrendered our UN veto, to boot. We'd be out of the UN, but everyone else would still be in it. Every anti-U.S. and anti-Israeli UN resolution would pass with super-majorities at that point.

Who cares and Who will enforce the un-resolutions???

We would be able to form an effective 21st century coalition that, as stated before, could and should be transparent and fair, as well as lead to the brightest future for the world and the USA

stayin in the un is only prolonging the inevitable, unless we are planning to lose anyways...

93 posted on 01/16/2005 9:20:35 PM PST by Gilbo_3 (Patience is a virtue, but it aint one of mine !!!)
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