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Slaying of 4 may be tied to (Islamic) religious extremism (NJ Christian family had throats slit)
Bergen Record ^ | Sunday, January 16, 2005 | TOM TRONCONE

Posted on 01/16/2005 5:22:26 AM PST by dead

Islamic extremists may have murdered four members of a Coptic Orthodox family found bound, gagged and with their throats slit on Friday in their Jersey City home, a law-enforcement official familiar with the case said.

The official confirmed that Hudson County investigators, as well the FBI, were "knee-deep" in pulling computer records and were coming to terms with the possibility that the family may have been targeted for death because of exchanges about religion in an Internet chat room.

The official cautioned, though, that investigators have not ruled out other possibilities, such as a robbery gone awry.

Hossam Armanious, 47, Amal Garas, 37, and their daughters Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were found dead in their Oakland Avenue home early Friday after family members alerted police that nobody had heard from them in days.

First Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Guy Gregory declined to discuss any details of the case, other than to confirm that police have ruled out a dispute the family had with a former tenant as a possible motive. He cautioned against speculating about the motive behind the murders.

"This is a very delicate investigation and one where we have spent hours at the scene collecting evidence and with the evidence collection complete, we're moving to bring in people that we feel need to be interviewed," Gregory said. "It's unfortunate that people are speculating."

But as the theory spread that revenge and religion were the driving forces behind one of the most heinous murders in the county's long history, fear enveloped the city's Coptic community.

Friends, relatives and co-worshippers of the devout family spent much of Saturday wondering how the seemingly upstanding Armanious family could fall victim to such a shockingly brutal crime. Several spoke of Hossam Armanious' participation in heated discussions about the Islamic faith on the Paltalk.com messenger service and threats he received for expressing his views about the religion.

Milad Garas, an uncle of Amal Garas, said Saturday that he was told investigators are probing whether the killings could have been prompted in part by the chat sessions. He also pointed to a passage in the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that details how enemies should be killed - bound and their throats slit, an assertion that drew a rebuttal from some Islamic scholars, but was supported by others.

A translation of passage 47:4 of the Quran reads in part: "Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers [in fight], smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly [on them]."

"There is a very wide range of interpretation of that, and it depends on where people are in the spectrum," said Frederick M. Denny, a professor of religious studies at the University of Colorado and author of more than a dozen books on Islam. "If they were going toward the extremist side, it could lead someone to believe it is justified. ... There are those that take that [passage] quite literally."

The close-knit Coptic community promised protests if the religious revenge theory proves accurate.

"If it turns out they were killed for religion, then we will [protest]," said Ayman Garas, Amal's younger brother. "We have to be patient, we can't do anything stupid. ... But it looks like it is religion, maybe."

The Armanious family moved to the United States from Egypt in part to escape religious persecution. Hossam Armanious had sensed a rise in anti-Christian extremism and wanted to make a better life for his family in America, Ayman Garas said.

"What I really want to know is: How?'' he said. "We just can't believe it at this point. Everything has passed like a dream."

The details of what may have been said in the chat sessions were not known Saturday night.

Fred Ayad, deacon of the couple's St. George Coptic Orthodox Church, said that the entire community was in a "panic" over the apparent targeting of the family, as well as the murders of a Coptic deacon in December and a Coptic cabdriver in late 2003.

Prosecutor Gregory said the conjecture about the murders is hampering his office's investigation, which he said has been exhaustive.

Copts are Egyptian Christians, a minority group of about 6 million in a nation of 60 million, and have been killed in religious rioting and during attacks on Christian churches by Islamic militants. Coptic leaders also say they lack representation in the Egyptian government and are treated like second-class citizens.

Over the past decade, Copts have increasingly immigrated to the United States. Currently, they number about 1 million in this country. Coptic Orthodox churches are scattered throughout the nation and, while there is no official count, Coptic Web sites list about 10 large congregations in New Jersey and about 20 in the tri-state area.

Islamic leaders said Saturday that the murders could not have been the work of someone inspired by the Quran.

"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."

Shedeed, who is Egyptian, said his group recently co-founded a social service organization with local Coptic churches, called Egyptian Family.

"We are trying to get religious leaders from both communities to meet on a monthly basis to break the ice between the people," he said. "We meet as individuals, but as organizations we never have done such a thing. We are trying to show that Egyptians together can benefit."

Shedeed said that as part of that effort, he attended Christmas Eve services at St. George's this year.

Asked about passages in the Quran that may suggest murdering non-believers in a manner that resembles the family's deaths, he replied, "The Quran talks about people fighting in the battle of war. It's not talking about people who live next to you. ... This has nothing to do with our community at all."

"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California. "If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."

On Saturday, the family received mourners at the church, as friends left lighted candles and flowers in front of the home. Neighbors talked of an exhaustive police investigation, with a former Armanious tenant, Nelly Ramirez, saying police had questioned her, her son and her son's girlfriend.

Meanwhile, friends of Sylvia, a high school sophomore who would have turned 16 on Saturday, lingered in front of the house, alternately crying and laughing. They talked of an extremely gifted teen who recently won a trip to Italy from the National Honor Society for a series of essays she wrote on topics such as Shakespeare and Charles Dickens.

"She used to write all the time," said her friend Jankil Patel, 15. "She used to go to church all the time. ... She'd debate people in class and even had a religious tattoo on her [right wrist]."

"She had a lot of friends; she was very popular," said Jessica Cimino, 15, another friend. Cimino and the other girls said they plan to attend the family funeral on Monday and wear T-shirts bearing Sylvia's image to school on Tuesday.

Ayman and Milad Garad and other family members were allowed into the crime scene for the first time on Saturday morning to gather the needed paperwork for the cemetery. They left the home with a briefcase and several other items, including a tank with several small turtles inside.

Staff Writer Kathleen Carroll contributed to this story. E-mail: troncone@northjersey.com


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: aliens; anothermissedstory; antichrist; armanious; comingtoyourhomenext; coptic; dhimmi; extremism; foxnewsasleepagain; gihad; holywar; islam; islamofascism; jerseycity; jihadinamerica; jihadtsunami; koran; koranimals; mediamissliketsunami; muslims; nicejobmedia; nukemecca; quran; religionofpeace; religionofpieces; terrorism; trop; war; waronterror; whereiscair; whereiscnn; whereisfnc; whereismsnbc; whilethemediasleeps
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To: sheik yerbouty

I'm suprised Rush is not talking about this today?


641 posted on 01/17/2005 10:58:12 AM PST by angcat
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To: Happy2BMe

Bookmarking


642 posted on 01/17/2005 11:03:15 AM PST by TruthNtegrity (Miss Beazley is such a cute little puppy. Makes me want one of my own.)
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To: ml/nj

"The One Minute Mosque"!


643 posted on 01/17/2005 11:03:50 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: freeperfromnj

This is gonna get ugly. Go Copts.


644 posted on 01/17/2005 11:04:01 AM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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To: SheLion

Here's new video from Jersey News channel. They community is afraid for their families. Judging from the signs they are holding and the fear expressed they clearly believe Islamists are responsible for this. No matter how the media tries to downplay it.

http://www.news12.com/NJ/topstories/article?id=127913#


645 posted on 01/17/2005 11:05:24 AM PST by freeperfromnj
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To: 4.1O dana super trac pak

You're right. It is going to get ugly. I just saw the Fox News clip.


646 posted on 01/17/2005 11:06:58 AM PST by freeperfromnj
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To: angcat

Give him time..


647 posted on 01/17/2005 11:09:10 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: sheik yerbouty

Funny Freeper name you have! LOL


648 posted on 01/17/2005 11:10:36 AM PST by angcat
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To: TruthNtegrity
JIHAD WATCH - New Jersey: an Islamic murder of Coptic Christians?


649 posted on 01/17/2005 11:10:47 AM PST by Happy2BMe ("Islam fears democracy worse than anything- If the imams can't control it - they will kill it.)
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To: debg
"Two, four, six, eight, we are martyrs, we can't wait," chanted the group, most of whom wore kaffiyehs -- the cloth headdress closely associated with Palestinian militants."

My Glock 27 has a 15 round magazine.

I can accomodate seven more of you.

650 posted on 01/17/2005 11:12:35 AM PST by Lazamataz ("Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown" -- harpseal)
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To: angcat

Many thanks! it has caused much offense against the effendis and impotentates! Allahu Fubar!


651 posted on 01/17/2005 11:13:26 AM PST by sheik yerbouty
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To: rlwinston
Here is the e-mail I sent to the NY Post news editor (cshaw@nypost.com):

Please continue to investigate these grisly murders. I have been following it since the story broke and am disconcerted as to the seeming cover-up regarding the motivation for the brutal killings.

Over the weekend it was reported as a possible hate-crime with the motivation for the killings perhaps being caused by the religious beliefs and outspokenness on an on-line message board (paltalk.com) of the murdered father. Today it is being reported that robbery is being considered as the main motive for these brutal slayings.

From all I've seen and read regarding this story, I believe that one must investigate the possiblility of robbery being an afterthought to these heinous crimes.

One must look into the possibility that this family was viciously executed by Islamic terrorists from the on-line community and that the robbery was then carried out as a "coverup" to mask the true reasons behind the killings.

Please note that according to the words of the Qu'ran, the murder of 'infidels' as well as any 'booty' resulting from this is deemed acceptable (and is even commanded):

On MURDER & TORTURE:

Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.”

Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy—a fierce slaughter—murdered, a horrible murdering.”

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

On BOOTY:

Qur’an 8:1 “They ask you about the benefits of capturing the spoils of war. Tell them: ‘The benefits belong to Allah and to His Messenger.’”

Qur’an 48:19 “He rewarded them with abundant spoils that they will capture. Allah has promised you much booty that you shall take, and He has made this easy for you.”

Qur’an 9:103 “Take alms out of their property in order to cleanse and purify them, and invoke Allah for them; surely this is a relief for them.”

Qur’an 8:1 “They question you about (windfalls taken as) spoils of war. Say: ‘Booty is at the disposal of Allah and the Messenger; they belong to Us and are for Our benefit. So fear Allah, and adjust your way of thinking in this matter. Obey Allah and His Messenger.’”

Qur’an 8:40 “If people are obstinate, and refuse to surrender, know that Allah is your Supporter. And know that one fifth of all the booty you take belongs to Allah, and to the Messenger, and for the near relatives (of the Messenger).”

Qur’an 8:68 “Had it not been for a previous agreement from Allah, a severe penalty would have reached you for the (ransom) that you took as booty.”

Qur’an 8:69 “So enjoy what you took as booty; the spoils are lawful and good.”

Qur’an 4:94 “Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah’s Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you: ‘You are not a believer!’ Coveting the chance profits of this life (so that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty.”

I urge you to continue to report on this story. It must not be swept under the rug for fear of inciting hatred or distrust between communities. As Americans, we are currently involved in the greatest war and struggle of our lives, the War on Terror. After what was done to us as a Nation on September 11, 2001, we must not hide from the truth about those that seek to do us harm.

If, indeed, these killings were motivated by religious hatred and persecution, it behooves all of us to know the truth and use all legal means at our disposal to fight this barbarism.

Thank you.

Sincerely,

I plan to send this (or a variation of it) to the follwing papers and news outlets: NY Daily News, Newsday, NY Times, NY Sun, FOX News, ABC7 NY, NBC4, CBS2 NY, FOX 5 NY, (WB) NY ch11, NY 1 and as many other news outlets as possible.

If I have anything to do with it, the TRUTH of this WILL be told!!

652 posted on 01/17/2005 11:34:53 AM PST by blinachka (Vechnaya Pamyat Daddy... xoxo)
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To: freeperfromnj

I just watched it. They wanted a piece of that imam.


653 posted on 01/17/2005 12:12:16 PM PST by 4.1O dana super trac pak (Stop the open borders death cult)
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To: freeperfromnj
Here's new video from Jersey News channel. They community is afraid for their families. Judging from the signs they are holding and the fear expressed they clearly believe Islamists are responsible for this. No matter how the media tries to downplay it.

And who should know best? The community.

654 posted on 01/17/2005 12:15:28 PM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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To: SheLion

Here's an example of the latest AP report that is propigating across the nation: http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/4089753/detail.html


655 posted on 01/17/2005 12:36:30 PM PST by debg
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To: debg
The regional head of the Coptic church cautioned against a rush to judgment, but Monir Dowoud, president of the American Coptic Association, said Sunday that "Muslim terrorists" were responsible.

The question was ask on Fox News:  how many Coptic's are in that area of NJ?  The answer was:  over 6,000.

"I don't want to jump to conclusions yet. We need to let the police do their investigation. But there is lots of tension right now between Christians and Muslims over this," he said.

656 posted on 01/17/2005 12:48:52 PM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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To: debg

This is an outrage! God..I truly detest the MSM!


657 posted on 01/17/2005 1:04:18 PM PST by penelopesire
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To: dead
I don't think that, after slicing the throats of the infidels, the muslim scumbags would be averse to picking up any spare spending money lying about the house.

Or the cops took the money and jewels.

658 posted on 01/17/2005 1:13:38 PM PST by JTHomes
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To: dead

bump


659 posted on 01/17/2005 1:19:06 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Nations do not survive by setting examples for others. Nations survive by making examples of others)
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To: JTHomes
Or the cops took the money and jewels.

The news yesterday reported that it didn't appear to BE a burglary because they found jewelry in the house.  Now, the jewels are gone as well as money from the wallets.  What gives.

660 posted on 01/17/2005 1:20:50 PM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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