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Slaying of 4 may be tied to (Islamic) religious extremism (NJ Christian family had throats slit)
Bergen Record ^ | Sunday, January 16, 2005 | TOM TRONCONE

Posted on 01/16/2005 5:22:26 AM PST by dead

Islamic extremists may have murdered four members of a Coptic Orthodox family found bound, gagged and with their throats slit on Friday in their Jersey City home, a law-enforcement official familiar with the case said.

The official confirmed that Hudson County investigators, as well the FBI, were "knee-deep" in pulling computer records and were coming to terms with the possibility that the family may have been targeted for death because of exchanges about religion in an Internet chat room.

The official cautioned, though, that investigators have not ruled out other possibilities, such as a robbery gone awry.

Hossam Armanious, 47, Amal Garas, 37, and their daughters Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were found dead in their Oakland Avenue home early Friday after family members alerted police that nobody had heard from them in days.

First Assistant Hudson County Prosecutor Guy Gregory declined to discuss any details of the case, other than to confirm that police have ruled out a dispute the family had with a former tenant as a possible motive. He cautioned against speculating about the motive behind the murders.

"This is a very delicate investigation and one where we have spent hours at the scene collecting evidence and with the evidence collection complete, we're moving to bring in people that we feel need to be interviewed," Gregory said. "It's unfortunate that people are speculating."

But as the theory spread that revenge and religion were the driving forces behind one of the most heinous murders in the county's long history, fear enveloped the city's Coptic community.

Friends, relatives and co-worshippers of the devout family spent much of Saturday wondering how the seemingly upstanding Armanious family could fall victim to such a shockingly brutal crime. Several spoke of Hossam Armanious' participation in heated discussions about the Islamic faith on the Paltalk.com messenger service and threats he received for expressing his views about the religion.

Milad Garas, an uncle of Amal Garas, said Saturday that he was told investigators are probing whether the killings could have been prompted in part by the chat sessions. He also pointed to a passage in the Muslim holy book, the Quran, that details how enemies should be killed - bound and their throats slit, an assertion that drew a rebuttal from some Islamic scholars, but was supported by others.

A translation of passage 47:4 of the Quran reads in part: "Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers [in fight], smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly [on them]."

"There is a very wide range of interpretation of that, and it depends on where people are in the spectrum," said Frederick M. Denny, a professor of religious studies at the University of Colorado and author of more than a dozen books on Islam. "If they were going toward the extremist side, it could lead someone to believe it is justified. ... There are those that take that [passage] quite literally."

The close-knit Coptic community promised protests if the religious revenge theory proves accurate.

"If it turns out they were killed for religion, then we will [protest]," said Ayman Garas, Amal's younger brother. "We have to be patient, we can't do anything stupid. ... But it looks like it is religion, maybe."

The Armanious family moved to the United States from Egypt in part to escape religious persecution. Hossam Armanious had sensed a rise in anti-Christian extremism and wanted to make a better life for his family in America, Ayman Garas said.

"What I really want to know is: How?'' he said. "We just can't believe it at this point. Everything has passed like a dream."

The details of what may have been said in the chat sessions were not known Saturday night.

Fred Ayad, deacon of the couple's St. George Coptic Orthodox Church, said that the entire community was in a "panic" over the apparent targeting of the family, as well as the murders of a Coptic deacon in December and a Coptic cabdriver in late 2003.

Prosecutor Gregory said the conjecture about the murders is hampering his office's investigation, which he said has been exhaustive.

Copts are Egyptian Christians, a minority group of about 6 million in a nation of 60 million, and have been killed in religious rioting and during attacks on Christian churches by Islamic militants. Coptic leaders also say they lack representation in the Egyptian government and are treated like second-class citizens.

Over the past decade, Copts have increasingly immigrated to the United States. Currently, they number about 1 million in this country. Coptic Orthodox churches are scattered throughout the nation and, while there is no official count, Coptic Web sites list about 10 large congregations in New Jersey and about 20 in the tri-state area.

Islamic leaders said Saturday that the murders could not have been the work of someone inspired by the Quran.

"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."

Shedeed, who is Egyptian, said his group recently co-founded a social service organization with local Coptic churches, called Egyptian Family.

"We are trying to get religious leaders from both communities to meet on a monthly basis to break the ice between the people," he said. "We meet as individuals, but as organizations we never have done such a thing. We are trying to show that Egyptians together can benefit."

Shedeed said that as part of that effort, he attended Christmas Eve services at St. George's this year.

Asked about passages in the Quran that may suggest murdering non-believers in a manner that resembles the family's deaths, he replied, "The Quran talks about people fighting in the battle of war. It's not talking about people who live next to you. ... This has nothing to do with our community at all."

"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California. "If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."

On Saturday, the family received mourners at the church, as friends left lighted candles and flowers in front of the home. Neighbors talked of an exhaustive police investigation, with a former Armanious tenant, Nelly Ramirez, saying police had questioned her, her son and her son's girlfriend.

Meanwhile, friends of Sylvia, a high school sophomore who would have turned 16 on Saturday, lingered in front of the house, alternately crying and laughing. They talked of an extremely gifted teen who recently won a trip to Italy from the National Honor Society for a series of essays she wrote on topics such as Shakespeare and Charles Dickens.

"She used to write all the time," said her friend Jankil Patel, 15. "She used to go to church all the time. ... She'd debate people in class and even had a religious tattoo on her [right wrist]."

"She had a lot of friends; she was very popular," said Jessica Cimino, 15, another friend. Cimino and the other girls said they plan to attend the family funeral on Monday and wear T-shirts bearing Sylvia's image to school on Tuesday.

Ayman and Milad Garad and other family members were allowed into the crime scene for the first time on Saturday morning to gather the needed paperwork for the cemetery. They left the home with a briefcase and several other items, including a tank with several small turtles inside.

Staff Writer Kathleen Carroll contributed to this story. E-mail: troncone@northjersey.com


TOPICS: Breaking News; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: aliens; anothermissedstory; antichrist; armanious; comingtoyourhomenext; coptic; dhimmi; extremism; foxnewsasleepagain; gihad; holywar; islam; islamofascism; jerseycity; jihadinamerica; jihadtsunami; koran; koranimals; mediamissliketsunami; muslims; nicejobmedia; nukemecca; quran; religionofpeace; religionofpieces; terrorism; trop; war; waronterror; whereiscair; whereiscnn; whereisfnc; whereismsnbc; whilethemediasleeps
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To: Vigilantcitizen; .45MAN; SLB

ROPMA Ping.


41 posted on 01/16/2005 5:58:55 AM PST by FreedomPoster
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To: Peach; Mo1

Not good, not good at all ping


42 posted on 01/16/2005 6:01:33 AM PST by prairiebreeze (George W Bush: Spending well-earned political capital.)
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To: nuconvert

I am a conservative zealot, extremist and fanatic. Most of my family gets agitated at me cause I will not budge on conservatism and I push it as much as I push Christianity.

That said I would never Kill those that oppose my views;like say Islam does. Therefore I hate Islam!!


43 posted on 01/16/2005 6:04:59 AM PST by Rightly Biased (Ecclesiastes 10:2 (don't be lazy look it up))
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To: dead
"We are not a bloody people," said Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City. "This is not from the Quran. This is not from Islam at all."


44 posted on 01/16/2005 6:05:16 AM PST by No Blue States
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To: mdmathis6
I think I would be in trouble for sure...if I were targeted!

There is quite a group in here and we follow all the news coming from the Islam, the Mosque's and the terrorist.

I can't do anything about it but be aware.

This is a very frightening issue, to say the least.

45 posted on 01/16/2005 6:07:50 AM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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To: dead
["There is a very wide range of interpretation of that, and it depends on where people are in the spectrum," said Frederick M. Denny, a professor of religious studies at the University of Colorado and author of more than a dozen books on Islam. "If they were going toward the extremist side, it could lead someone to believe it is justified. ... There are those that take that [passage] quite literally."]

A liberal lefty pretending to be a professor and a fool to boot. With liberal babblers, the language is used for double talk and deception; read Ann Coulter's book " How to talk to a liberal, if you must."
The liberal national socialist movement has all the trimmings of Hitler's national socialist movement of the 1930's and is following their fascist agenda more closely than the Marxist communist agenda did in Russia.
Christians and Jews had best wake up in America and begin to fight the good fight against home bred fascists as well as Islamic terrorists. And if some still believe that Christians and Islam serve the same God, read both the Bible and the Quaran to understand the immense differences of the LORD of Hosts and the devil god known as Allah. The Islamic Quaran states that Jews and Christians are to murdered and unbeliever's converted to Islam with the sword or enslaved to Muslims. How come the experts and politically correct liberals rarely come to such knowledge; it's available by reading yet most liberal experts have an agenda and care little about truth until their throats are slit by these murderer's.
46 posted on 01/16/2005 6:09:14 AM PST by wgeorge2001 (Ge.1: 26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominio)
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To: dead

hopefully the muzzies used their home computer for the FBI to trail. We have a very big muslim problem in this country. I personally reported 7 to the FBI. In Islam their are 2 kinds of muzzies, those that murder and those that support the murderers!!!


47 posted on 01/16/2005 6:11:52 AM PST by Luigi Vasellini
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To: dead
There is a another lesson that needs to be digested here along with "who done it".

Many Christians fled from these countries precisely because they were the targets of Islamic persecution. When we finally have enough of these Islamic fanatics in this country and start doing something about them, we want to make sure these Arab Christians aren't victimized by the reaction of those who are indescriminately after "all ragheads" and consider everyone from these countries as coming from the same root.

There are many decent, Christian Arabs in America. These victims were four of them.

48 posted on 01/16/2005 6:13:35 AM PST by Gritty ("Go for the houses of the kafir, where you can loot and come back"-Sheikh Abu Hamza)
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To: dead
"If someone read a verse and used it to justify the killing of four people, I believe that person is unbalanced. ... There are very few Muslims who would support this sort of thing."

Yeah, but it's happening ...

49 posted on 01/16/2005 6:14:54 AM PST by BunnySlippers (When it comes to humility, I'm the greatest! - Bullwinkle J. Moose)
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To: prairiebreeze

I just saw that. Very disturbing indeed.


50 posted on 01/16/2005 6:15:53 AM PST by Peach (The Cl intons pardoned more terrorists than they ever captured or killed.)
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To: SheLion
"I wonder how many are targeted from Free Republic.................."

I don't know, SheLion, but I'm sure not hard to find.
Bring it on!

If any of you followers of Mohammed, may he wallow in pig poop for eternity, want me, send me a freep. I'll send you my address.

Advice: Don't bring a throat slitter to a gun fight.

51 posted on 01/16/2005 6:19:57 AM PST by TexasCowboy (Texan by birth, citizen of Jesusland by the Grace of God)
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To: dead
"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California.

Amazing how someone so deficient in basic reading comprehension skills can be a chair at a college.

52 posted on 01/16/2005 6:23:49 AM PST by Lil'freeper (Error 404. The requested file was not found.)
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To: nuconvert
[I don't like extremists, zealots, or fanatics of any kind.]

Many who use this line are generally atheist's and are extremist in the religion of evolution, zealous against all who profess God as Lord and Jesus Christ as Saviour, and fanatics in the political arena and especially the politically correct neo nazi democrat movement. Or they may not be aware of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Do I owe you an apology?
53 posted on 01/16/2005 6:24:14 AM PST by wgeorge2001 (Ge.1: 26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominio)
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To: TexasCowboy
Advice: Don't bring a throat slitter to a gun fight.

This is really sickening. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think America would be up against this.

54 posted on 01/16/2005 6:24:27 AM PST by SheLion (God bless our military members and keep them safe.)
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To: nuconvert
[I don't like extremists, zealots, or fanatics of any kind.]

Many who use this line are generally atheist's and are extremist in the religion of evolution, zealous against all who profess God as Lord and Jesus Christ as Saviour, and fanatics in the political arena and especially the politically correct neo nazi democrat movement. Or they may not be aware of the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Do I owe you an apology?
55 posted on 01/16/2005 6:24:52 AM PST by wgeorge2001 (Ge.1: 26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominio)
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To: Sender

I tend towards the latter, since lying to the infidel is allowed, and celebrated...


56 posted on 01/16/2005 6:25:53 AM PST by Maigrey (Ask my Viking Kitty Hoard about their diet of Free Range Tuna..... and Freerange Sumoo Sushi)
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To: dead

Shades of Theo Van Gogh. Wake up America.


57 posted on 01/16/2005 6:26:59 AM PST by veronica (Got a script? Go here - http://www.filmmonterey.org/screenwriting.html)
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To: Lil'freeper; dead; SheLion
"The Quran stands very firmly against taking human life," said noted Islamic author Zayn Kassam, chairwoman of the religious studies department of Pomona College in California.

Remember what you hear in english will be much different from what you hear in Arabic. MEMRI has more on that on a daily basis.
58 posted on 01/16/2005 6:27:33 AM PST by e5man_r_u? (A Man's mission: Build, Protect, Provide)
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To: dead; Admin Moderator

You may want to fix the title of thread. It appears truncated.


59 posted on 01/16/2005 6:28:45 AM PST by Huber
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To: tkathy

"The msm had better deal w/ this loud and clear" TKathy don't hold your breath. If it turns out muslims did commit this crime i doubt we'll hear a peep from the msm. It's very sad and tragic that this family came to the US to escape religeous violence and discrimination, and ended up being slaughtered because they were Christians.


60 posted on 01/16/2005 6:29:34 AM PST by thombo
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