Posted on 01/14/2005 2:19:11 PM PST by Las Vegas Dave
Decades ago, it was physicist Enrico Fermi who pondered the issue of extraterrestrial civilizations with fellow theorists over lunch, generating the famous quip: "Where are they?" That question later became central to debates about the cosmological census count of other star folk and possible extraterrestrial (ET) visitors from afar.
Fermi’s brooding on the topic was later labeled "Fermi’s paradox". It is a well-traveled tale from the 1950’s when the scientist broached the subject in discussions with colleagues in Los Alamos, New Mexico. Thoughts regarding the probability of earthlike planets, the rise of highly advanced civilizations "out there", and interstellar travel -- these remain fodder for trying to respond to Fermi’s paradox even today.
Now a team of American scientists note that recent astrophysical discoveries suggest that we should find ourselves in the midst of one or more extraterrestrial civilizations. Moreover, they argue it is a mistake to reject all UFO reports since some evidence for the theoretically-predicted extraterrestrial visitors might just be found there.
The researchers make their proposal in the January/February 2005 issue of the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society (JBIS).
Curious situation
Pick up any good science magazine and you’re sure to see the latest in head-scratching ideas about superstring theory, wormholes, or the stretching of spacetime itself. Meanwhile, extrasolar planetary detection is on the verge of becoming mundane.
"We are in the curious situation today that our best modern physics and astrophysics theories predict that we should be experiencing extraterrestrial visitation, yet any possible evidence of such lurking in the UFO phenomenon is scoffed at within our scientific community," contends astrophysicist Bernard Haisch.
Haisch along with physicists James Deardorff, Bruce Maccabee and Harold Puthoff make their case in the JBIS article: "Inflation-Theory Implications for Extraterrestrial Visitation".
The scientists point to two key discoveries made by Australian astronomers and reported last year that there is a "galactic habitable zone" in our Milky Way Galaxy. And more importantly that Earth’s own star, the Sun, is relatively young in comparison to the average star in this zone -- by as much as a billion years.
Therefore, the researchers explain in their JBIS article that an average alien civilization would be far more advanced and have long since discovered Earth. Additionally, other research work on the supposition underlying the Big Bang -- known as the theory of inflation -- shores up the prospect, they advise, that our world is immersed in a much larger extraterrestrial civilization.
Point-to-point distances
Given billion-year advanced physics, might not buzzing around the galaxy be possible?
Even today superstring theory hypothesizes other dimensions... which could be habitable Universes adjacent to our own, the researchers speculate. It might even be possible to get around the speed of light limit by moving in and out of these dimensions.
"What we have done is somewhat of a breakthrough," Haisch told SPACE.com. "We have pulled together various recent discoveries and theoretical issues that collectively point to the strong probability that we should be in the midst of one or more huge extraterrestrial civilizations," he said.
Haisch said that superstring dimensions and wormhole and spacetime stretching possibilities address the "can't get here from there" objection often argued in view of the interstellar, point-to-point distances involved. Also, diffusion models predict that even a single civilization could spread across the Galaxy in a tiny fraction of the age of the Galaxy - even at sub-light speeds, he said.
ET signature in the data
Can the scientific community bring itself to consider any evidence coming from mysterious sightings of strange things by the public?
In large measure, the scientific community seemingly has eyed ET visitation as far from being serious stuff to cogitate over. Why so?
"The dismissal has several causes, all reinforcing each other," Haisch responded. "Most of the observations are probably misinterpretations, delusions and hoaxes. I have seen people get confused by Venus or even Sirius when it is flashing colors low in the sky under the right conditions. Having been turned off by this, most scientists never bother to look any further, and so are simply blissfully ignorant that there may be more to it," he said.
Deardorff, the lead author of the JBIS article, points out in a press statement: "It would take some humility for the scientific community to suspend its judgment and take at least some of the high quality reports seriously enough to investigate…but I hope we can bring ourselves to do that."
According to Haisch, there is a motivation not just for scientific tolerance of the UFO issue, but a strong scientific prediction that there ought to be some genuine ET signature in the data.
"This potentially changes the relationship of the UFO phenomenon to science in a significant way. It takes away the ‘not invented here’ prejudice, pointing out that a ‘yes’ to ET visitation is exactly what side our current physics and astrophysics theories would come down on as the most likely situation," Haisch concluded.
I am curious because I've dated females from 6 of the 7 Earth civilizations and want to try another style:) In my free time, of course.
"If nothing - NOT A DAMN THING among all the waves and/or particles in the universe has ever been seen to travel (convey information, strictly speaking) faster than light"
Spookey action at a distance between quantum states sure does.
Key words here: Convey information.
Nope. Not even one bit. That is because the action is both random and simultaneous. No informtaion in. No information out.
Perhaps it's your attitude.
The action in a computer is random function as well. It's just a very high probability that the information that I type actually makes it across the ether to you. In the same way, the scientists see information getting transmitted that cannot be accounted for by random fluctuations, any more than the fact that you will be responding to random fluctuations in the universe when you respond to my post.
Real illegal aliens aren't particularly stupid. They walk around in suits and call themselves managers. When they get around to me, I AM an illegal alien when I tell them how things can work nicely together. This is why I am never going to be a phone dude. I have a low tolerance for certain things. This is how I am quietly left alone to listen to Laura, Rush and Sean all day long while doing my things:):)
Well, I'll take one more shot at it:
Some effects seem to propagate FTL, e.g.: "Spooky action at a distance." The fact that the same thing happens at two distant places conveys no information. Why? Because you can't modulate this signal (it isn't a signal!).
It's a catch. Can't get around it.
The point is that it breaks down the probability calculation into its individual components, so that each one can be studied and narrowed down using the appropriate fields of study. For example, astronomers/cosmologists can refine estimates of how many sufficiently Earth-like planets there are per stable solar system in the galaxy.
Yes, each estimate is going to have error bars on it (that old "plus or minus X%"), but these will be accumulated into the final result, and once some of the individual factors become narrowed enough, the final result will have an error bar that's narrow enough to be useful.
Additionally, if any one of the terms is found to be large enough or small enough, it can pretty much resolve the issue immediately, without wasting time resolving the others. For example, if Earth-like worlds turn out to be vanishingly rare for some reason, then it doesn't much matter how likely the rise of complex life might be on them -- there still won't be any other intelligent life in our galaxy. And so on.
And research on most of the terms does not rely on "a sample size of one", since for example the cosmological questions are examined by studying billions of stars, not just our own.
Can you please rectify 2 seemingly contradictory statements from you before I get drawn into one of those "how many angels dance on the head of a pin" discussions?
"Some effects seem to propagate FTL"
"NOT A DAMN THING among all the waves and/or particles in the universe has ever been seen to travel (convey information, strictly speaking) faster than light"
You are correct. No information is actually transmitted unless instructions for replicating the experiment is dispatched, if you will, by snail mail (STL). The only potential here is for cryptography, not for communication.
I guess that makes sense but are we really sure about how many extra-solar planets there are? We really don't know if every star has planets around it, we have found how many?A hundred or so.
PS. I think "extra-solar" is the term for planets outside our solar system, but I am not sure.
I don't.
Neither do I.
"...are we really sure about how many extra-solar planets there are?"
***That uncertainty would be accounted for within the error bars of the Drake equation. Let's say you think the most there could possibly be would be 100k of them. So we would say you're off by 3 orders of magnitude and allow for 100M of them. If there were more than that, we would have been sighting them in the 1930's. In the lottery that I offer, I grant 9 orders of magnitude of error. In typical engineering circles, if you got the order of magnitude wrong at all (even by 1 order), you got the answer completely wrong.
Thanks for the recommendation. I'll check out Missler's stuff.
Yes, UFO behavior defies ALL laws of "natural" physics because they exist outside the realm of the "natural" world -- as the metaphysical. Same result with ETs, ESP, Ghosts, etc.
Material science will NEVER explain them, nor any paranormal activity outside the physical dimension.
A world bound by neither time or space or mass -- the spirit world of God and His angels, and Satan and his demons -- are indeed affecting the physical world. I have a feeling Missler gets into this...
And another thing -- the "science" of "parapsychology" is bunk. How can a non-physical dimension of reality be "examined" if scientists aren't sure of supernatural "law"?
"BTW, if anyone encounters a ghost, the first thing you wanna do is ask him a question or two about who Jesus is. :-)"
Hear ya, bro. Armor's on, sword's at my side ;-)
What was that thread where there WAS information successfully transmitted, effectively, at faster than light in the lab? I don't even remember enough keywords to search.
I think it was an experiment reported out in the last 6 months.
The understanding of this layman . . . from talking to my relative, others who've had positions to know and reading vast tons of stuff since Jr High . . .
is
that your information is very out of date compared to what some of our countrymen have been routinely experiencing for several decades.
How do I know 1,000% certain.
But I'm NORMALLY a pretty good judge of authenticity in humans--especially over the span of routine relationship time.
Maybe it's here? It's a HUGH thread.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/844807/posts
Or maybe here in this voodoo physics thread?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/724246/posts
I don't know of any reliable relatively public arena where that is answered in any conclusive way--yet.
GREER's DISCLOSURE PROJECT is evidently a valiant attempt--if it's not yet another trek down a disinformation rabbit hole--and I mostly don't think it is.
I do believe him and his many 400+ engineers; Col's; physicists etc. who have gone on record in his files--some with crystal clear photos; videos etc. and a number on a good Congressional Testimony DVD set of presentations. The best stuff that would get someone sent to Leavenworth is held in reserve, wisely and charitably, I think, unless and until Congress grants the leakers Congressioinal Immunity from prosecution for violating their security oaths.
IF there was really 0.000% whatever there, then the security oath stuff would be a super farce. Given the number of people who've been terminated for knowing too much and sounding like they were going to leak . . . I don't blame anyone for being cautious.
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