Shot one last week. Lotsa flame and some kick. Goes right through a vest.
Posted on 01/14/2005 12:21:45 PM PST by Mr. Mojo
NEW YORK -- There is a nationwide alert to members of law enforcement regarding a new kind of handgun which can render a bulletproof vest useless, as first reported by NewsChannel 4's Scott Weinberger.
The most shocking fact may be that the gun -- known as the "five-seven" -- is being marketed to the public, and it's completely legal
It was a very difficult decision for members of law enforcement to go public about the new weapon, but officers fear that once word of the weapon begins to circulate in the wrong circles, they will be in great danger. They agreed to speak to NewsChannel 4, hoping the public will understand what they call the most devastating weapon they face.
The weapon is light, easily concealable and can fire 20 rounds in seconds without reloading.
"This would be devastating," said Chief Robert Troy, of the Jersey City Police Department.
Troy said he learned about the high-powered pistol from a bulletin issued by Florida Department of Law Enforcement to all of its agents. Troy believes faced with this new weapon, his officers would be at a total disadvantage.
"Dealing with a gun like this -- it's a whole new ballgame," Troy said.
Troy is not the only member of law enforcement to voice concern. As NewsChannel 4 began to contact several more departments in the Tri-State Area, it turned out that officers in Trumball, Conn., had seized one of these handguns during a recent arrest.
"Certainly, handguns are a danger to any police officer on any day, but one that specifically advertised by the company to be capable of defeating a ballistic vest is certainly the utmost concern to us," said Glenn Byrnes, of the Trumball Police Department.
The five-seven is made by FN Herstal, a Belgian company. On its Web site, the company boasts the five-seven's ability to penetrate more than 48 layers of Kevlar -- the material bulletproof vests are made of -- if you use a five-seven, 28-mm armor-piercing bullet.
However, the company said that bullet is not sold to the public. Instead, gun buyers can purchase what the company calls a training or civilian bullet -- the type loaded into the gun confiscated by Trumball police.
At a distance of 21 feet, Trumball police Sgt. Lenny Scinto fired the five-seven with the ammo sold legally to the public into a standard police vest. All three penetrated the vest.
The bullets even went through the back panel of the vest, penetrating both layers.
In a similar test, an officer fired a .45-caliber round into the same vest. While the shot clearly knocked it down, it didn't penetrate the vest, and an officer would likely have survived the assault.
"The velocity of this round makes it a more penetrating round -- that's what had me concerned," Scinto said.
FN Herstal told NewsChannel 4 that they dispute the test, stating, "Most law enforcement agencies don't have the ability to properly test a ballistic vest."
When NewsChannel 4 asked how this could have happened, the spokesperson said: "We [the company] are not experts in ballistic armor."
Back in Trumball, Scinto said his officers would have to rethink how to protect the public and protect themselves.
"This is going to add a whole new dimension to training and tactics. With the penetration of these rounds, you're going to have to find something considerably heavier than we normally use for cover and concealment to stop this round," Scinto said.
In Jersey City, Troy said he will appeal to lawmakers, hoping they will step in before any of his officers are confronted with the five-seven.
"This does not belong in the civilian population. The only thing that comes out of this is profits for the company and dead police officers," Troy said. "I would like the federal government to ban these rounds to the civilian public."
In the article? The unavailability of AP rounds is mentioned.
The article claims that ordinary (not AP) rounds are capable of penetrating the kevlar vest.
Well that would mean banning of all firearms since any firearm can fire armor-piercing bullets. Balling all guns only allows CRIMINALS to have guns.
Roger that-
The first generation Second Chance wasn't the most comfortable thing in the world.
It was even more uncomfortable when you knew everyone knew you had it.
I remember Air Force SWAT School. They pounded the "Superman Syndrome" into our nuggets hard. It was even a mandatory portion of the Operations Order to remind the Team Members of it.
Bottom line I have always tried to get across to my trainees and subordinates-Toys don't replace training. Vests don't take away the need for sound tactics
I do not know about any laws regarding armor-piericng rounds but any such law would be pointless since rifle rounds will always penetrate vests as do knives.
From the looks of it, 28MM may be the length of the round and 5.7 MM the caliber
After all, just today four people were found murdered (throats slit) in Jersey City
The knifers would never have stood a chance if the victems had guns.
Before you post on a subject, it is useful to know something about it. This is a .22 centerfire pistol. Any cartridge that fires a pointed bullet at oh, 1900 fps or up will shoot through an ordinary ballistic vest. ie one without trauma plates.
There is nothing special at all about this pistol/cartridge combo. 7.62x25 is another pistol cal that will shoot thought a vest. I suspect a .17 rimfire would also penetrate many vests (I don't know for sure as I have never seen or read of a test).
Any centerfire rifle will also do the same. If the cops want to ban this, do they also want to ban deer and varmint rifles?
This is just more Goldielocks gun control. Guns are always too big or too small or too fast but never just right for citizens to own.
Unless the law has changed recently armor piercing pistol ammunition (as defined by the law) is banned. Expand on "Wrong" a bit, if you please.
I figured someone would get to the obvious. Blackbird.
Criminals CAN get bullet proof vests. ANything can be bought on the black market.
Yup. A Tokarev. It was pretty cool. In the East block, everyone knew that a Tokarev would go right through a bullet-proof vest. It's no secret.
"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."
Well the 2nd amendement has been INFRINGED since the 1930s. The line must be drawn before the leftists ever manage a complete gun ban.
excellent point.
man...that is a beauty.
Too late.
Yer on the list.
There is no Trumball, Conn. It's Trumbull, CT and this is news to me... I live here.
If this author checks his facts as well as he checks his geography, he's an idiot.
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