F***ing with Freepers: Sex catapults me to the big time

Creative Loafing (Atlanta) ^ | 1/13/05 | CLIFF BOSTOCK

[madprof98]

Woo hoo! I've made the big time. Last month, the website Free Republic featured a thread about my Nov. 18 column, "Queers Who Don't Act Right." You probably don't know much about Free Republic unless you are a right-wing lunatic. Free Republic is so far right that wing-nut gay muckraker Matt Drudge and Lucianne Goldberg, one of the architects of the Clinton-Monica Lewinsky brouhaha, both left the site in 1999 because it was too extreme, even for them.

In the years since, the site has become the contemporary version of a marathon meeting of the old John Birch Society and the KKK. Most recently, Free Republic was in the news when John Corsi, one of the Swift Boat Veterans who authored a book attacking John Kerry, turned out to post embarrassingly racist messages there. (Of course, he argued his racist insults were all "a joke." Talk about your Clintonian rhetoric.) The site also was in the news recently because someone correctly posted that Dan Rather had relied on phony documents to impute President Bush's National Guard service.

Free Republic is so extreme that it's a blast to read. Don't bother to explore the site with the idea of posting an alternative perspective or to correct facts. Your post will simply be deleted, despite its owner's celebration of freedom of speech. The site has no hesitation in reprinting copyrighted material, like my column, even though the Washington Post and Los Angeles Times both successfully sued to stop such theft. In other words, as is generally true of the lunatic far right, the truth, free speech and the law only matter when they support their point of view.

Of course, Freepers, as the creepy wing-nuts on the site are called, were not alone in being outraged by my column. I received quite a lot of mail, mainly from other gay people, questioning my argument that LA Fitness at Ansley Mall overreacted when it closed its sauna because of some occasional sex and reopened it with a new picture window overlooking the locker room. As an update, I might add that the window has effectively eliminated unseen sexual interactions inside the sauna and made room for another, more open form of sex between people on either side of the window: exhibitionism and voyeurism.

Most of my correspondents argued that the occasional discovery of sex in the sauna merited involvement by the police and the health department, reconstruction of the sauna and a report by one of the local TV stations. And, as usual, they concluded that because I called that overreacting, I must favor sex in public spaces. No matter that I said I find the behavior annoying. To be righteous, I must find it -- what? -- criminally actionable.

I wasn't surprised by the reaction. Sex troubles people more than anything. That's why Clinton was impeached for lying about a blowjob, while Bush was re-elected despite lying about a war that has killed thousands. Gay people's oppression is the result of their sex lives, so it's not surprising that they are hypersensitive to anything that might add to the picture of deviance. But it has become obvious that the very effort to make all deviance disappear and to assimilate -- to marry, for example -- increases prejudice.

The Freepers, of course, took outrage over my column to dizzy heights, fabricating arguments I did not make. This began with the man who posted it, "madpro98." He said that I dismissed "all sexual conventions, including common decency, as so much homophobia." Actually, I wrote no such thing. Then, of course, the Freepers concluded that the case of LA Fitness means every gay man is a sauna whore. For example, "Sender" writes: "Does anyone else think it's strange that gay men often have sex in a public toilet stall? ... Even if we had unisex public restrooms, somehow I can't imagine a man and a woman eyeing one another while washing their hands, then just jumping in the stall for a go."

The writer obviously has never been to Buckhead on a Saturday night. But what cracks me up is that the Freepers are so anxious to bash someone like me that they don't even realize when they are supporting a contrary argument. For example, "buffyt" quoted my statement that I don't like "stumbling upon any sex scene to which I have not been invited." Then she riffed obsessively about heterosexual couples at Mardi Gras "coupling all over the place" while the police ignore them. Exactly. Heterosexuals spoil the view with public sexual interactions every bit as much as homosexuals, arguably more, when they can find a place to do it. Nobody followed up on that post, of course.

I'm not going to quote the mind-boggling illogics and endless sophomoric fag-bashing (despite arguing they aren't homophobic). But I will thank "Jack Black," who wrote: "I think this was very well written. He is writing for the audience of radical homosexuals as one, so I have trouble twisting my thoughts enough to get to his point of view, but I still think the writing is good." Kiss me, dude!

Cliff Bostock holds a Ph.D. in depth psychology. Write him at cliff.bostock@ creativeloafing.com.

[Palladin]

Good job, madprof! You have him bleating like a sheep set upon by LA Fitness fans.

[Petronski]

By the way, he also has a Masters in "Width Psychology" Who says size doesn't matter?

He should have gone for the far more versatile degree, Psychological Volumetrics. In that program you get ALL the dimensions.

[weegee]

Then she riffed obsessively about heterosexual couples at Mardi Gras "coupling all over the place" while the police ignore them.

Actually that is a false statement. Police in New Orleans do oppose that. They understand "the Mardi Gras" but they don't permit "exposure" of genitals or public sex to occur. They will even warn a girl walking topless down the street to coverup because she might attract "unwanted" attention/groping, etc. It would not excuse her attackers but the police are there to maintain peace and order.

They are quick to drop those who take things to far and take them to jail. Locals aren't the ones who violate the public indecency, it is tourists who come in and think that they can do "anything" there.

[Huck]

It's the first I've heard of the "field." That's why I looked it up. Looks like something that goes over pretty well in California. They been falling for swamis and snake oil out there for years and years.

[MeekOneGOP]

Thanks for the ping, Darksheare, and for the post, madprof98.

Way to go, madprof98!

---

Darksheare post:

Madprof[98] posted a thread a while ago that zinged one Dr Bostock
who is a legend in his own mind. Bostock responds by whining about
us!

Give Madprof congrats on zinging Bostock. He's found where some
of our recent trolls are coming from.

---

Pinging the kitties here, just fyi, folks.

[Darksheare]

Welcome.
I figured that if Bostock was that angered by the zing MadProf gave him, then there's some nerve there he hit, and we might as well make Bostock as wroth as posible.

I figured I might as well share the article with others for the laugh and give props and respect to Madprof at the same time.

[weegee]

Related thread: Sexual Freedom Activists Target 'Archaic, Unjust' Sex Laws

In addition, the project will examine laws against public lewdness, "which are routinely misused to persecute and prosecute people who participate in non-traditional forms of sexual expression."

"I've seen firsthand how the misuse of these [public lewdness] laws has ruined the lives of gay and bisexual men," said Matt Foreman,executive director of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force.

"Few victims of this abuse ever come forward for fear of further embarrassment and the system counts on this silence. We intend to shine some light on these shameful practices."

[Petronski]

Pacifica attempts to take psychology out of the realm of the purely personal to examine how the "soul of the world" finds expression through and demands nurturing by the individual as well as our social institutions.

Hooo-weee, that is a first class heap of crap....we're talking circus crap here.

[hiredhand]

HA! HA! HA! Yes! That's the one! Do you mind if I grab a copy? :-)

[b4its2late]

Take it. I have the other one too....

[Petronski]

The insights of the unconscious, the transferential field, and the symptom, as well as the experience of dream and the imaginal, are extended within and beyond the consulting room and applied to an investigation of culture and history. Our work aims to recover what has been forgotten and marginalized by the heroic, individualistic ego, and to develop a capacity to host image and psyche. These endeavors allow us to apprehend the immanency of psyche in nature and to attend to the interdependent nature of being.

Pass the doob!

[hiredhand]

...got it....thanks :-)

[superskunk]

Wow! What a self important little man. I'm certainly glad that FR helped boost his ego.(not that he needed any help) This one truly is a gem.

Meek - thanks for the ping.

madprof98 - thanks for posting this. Haven't laughed this hard in days.

[Altamira]

Yeah, it seems that way, doesn't it.

Max Combined says it's all my fault...he's probably one of those people you're talking about.

[weegee]

What the hell is "depth psycology"?!

Who the hell is "Cliff Bostock" for that matter?!!

[Thebaddog]

Cliff Bostock has worked as a writer and editor for over 20 years—including stints as editor of small-town weekly newspapers, Creative Loafing and Houston City Magazine. In 1995, he completed work on his M.A. degree in psychology, with emphasis in counseling, at West Georgia College—one of the nation’s pioneering programs in humanistic psychology. In 1996, he enrolled in the new Ph.D. program in Depth Psychology at Pacifica Graduate Institute in Santa Barbara, California. During supervised work as a psychotherapist, he developed the “Greeting the Muse” workshop for blocked writers and artists. It is now his main work, whether in groups, workshops or individual sessions. In all his work, he tries to help people uncover purpose and meaning in life, and recover the passion that connection to our purpose naturally generates. It is not psychotherapy; it is soulwork.

[Zhangliqun]

As an update, I might add that the window has effectively eliminated unseen sexual interactions inside the sauna and made room for another, more open form of sex between people on either side of the window: exhibitionism and voyeurism.

You're right professor, it was pointless. Clearly the problem is not whether to have a window, but in the nature of the people involved. (Ooops, didn't think it all the way through, did you?)

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Thanks!

The spirit of depth psychology is closely associated with literature, myth, spirituality, alchemy, and mythic traditions. In classes, depth psychology's ancient roots and interdisciplinary identity are explored and examined.

No wonder the liberals are strange....

[Kevin OMalley]

We don't run into very many polite liberals around here, we're glad you join our forum.



"... I'll just have to hope that people see that I was asked directly this question and would never push these opinions on this site."
***Good preface. If things ever get impolite, you can just steer folks back to the original post.


"....I am a liberal, but I don't necessarily hold with everything the Democratic Party says."
***And I'm a conservative, but I don't necessarily hold with everything the Republican party says. But aRINOld would call me a "right wing crazy" and Cliff Bostock says I'm "too extreme, even for the far right wing-nut muckrakers". I've found that the labels come out fast & furious when people run out of solid points & facts.

I believe in gun rights, yes.
***Wow, that really puts you into the middle of the spectrum.

But I also believe that government should not involve itself (for the most part) in social issues (this includes definition of marriage, for example).
***What I have noticed and come to accept is that both liberals and conservatives seem to want the govmint involved in forwarding their own passionate agendas. This is the direction politics is headed. When Reagan became president, we were supposed to have smaller government, but it continued to grow, just not the liberal side of it. It's almost like people don't want govmint intrusion but they want govmint help. You won't get one without the other.


I believe the government should be involved in regulating certain industries.
***In some respects, so do I, for the common good. It was good that the government started implementing standards for air pollution, for instance. I'm glad the government regulates air travel safety, so the planes aren't falling on our heads (most of the time), but the govmint has no business running the airlines.


I believe in progressive taxes. I believe in social security. I believe in some degree of welfare.
***Many of these positions are ones that the average social conservative won't have problems with, perhaps just to what degree they're implemented and how much they cost.


Abortion is a hairier issue, because I think it has to do with when you believe life begins, and there isn't a broad consensus on that question (that I can see, at least).
***This is where I often find disingenuousness on the part of liberals, who want to define the beginning of life for their own political benefit. This is a biological question, we should simply ask biologists. Their unwavering response is that life begins at the moment of conception, whether it's for a Condor, a mouse, or a human.



My point is, though, that given these beliefs, I think I AM a liberal.
***You're probably just middle-of-the-road, that's all. The liberal wing of the democratic party has left you behind, much as the conservative wing of the republican party left Goldwater behind. You have more in common with social conservatives than you think. You just don't agree with them on some factual issues.



I don't want to argue about these beliefs here, because I don't think this is the place.
***I sometimes wonder where there would be a safe place. This might prove a useful exercise. Allow me to suggest for starters,
http://web.rollins.edu/~jmorrison/docs/speak/Reasoning.html


For one thing, I'd be ridiculously outnumbered. But more importantly, freerepublic is a conservative forum, so it should be used to discuss conservative ideas.
***It's okay to discuss liberal ideas on this forum, but there might be more noise than signal in the debate.


I post here when I believe my posts are factual or ideologically neutral.
***As a social conservative, I would like to lay down a factual challenge to you. Please read the book, "Jesus, God Ghost or Guru?" by Quentin Hyde, or if you can't find it, a lesser read would be "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. Only deal with the facts you find, ignore any and all religious mumbo jumbo, there won't be much of that.

[wagglebee]

"Depth psychology" is a description of this moron's "thought patterns" when his face is crammed into some other faggots nether region.