Posted on 01/13/2005 10:01:46 PM PST by kattracks
A Lutheran task force handed a victory to homosexual rights groups yesterday by recommending that although the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America should not change its policy against ordaining homosexual clergy, it should not censure churches that break the rule.
But "those who feel conscience-bound to call people [as pastors] in committed same-sex unions should refrain from making the call a media event either as an act of defiance or with the presumption of being prophetic," the task force warned. The 14-member task force pronounced itself conflicted and unable to agree about how the ELCA should proceed.
What emerged in their report — released at church headquarters in Chicago — was a compromise in which congregations could hire homosexual clergy without making this the official policy in the 4.9-million-member denomination.
The compromise came as three recommendations:
•That Lutherans "learn to live together faithfully," while disagreeing, thus avoiding the splits over homosexuality that have dominated the Episcopal Church, which has shared sacraments, clergy and ministry with the ELCA since 2001.
•That the ELCA continue to have no official policy on same-sex unions, but "respect" a 1993 ELCA bishops' statement that does not approve such ceremonies as official church acts;
•That the denomination not discipline churches that hire homosexual clergy, nor the clergy themselves. At least 14 openly homosexual seminarians or clergy serve in ELCA churches, according to the San Francisco-based Lutheran Lesbian and Gay Ministries.
(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...
I'm not Lutheran and I would have liked to understand your argument better or did I make mine too good ?
(1)commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?
This is law and not advice. All law is given for our good. If we ignore God's law hell awaits us.
(2)how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him
God can and does give good gifts."Everything good comes from God". Are we capable of doing good? "..and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;"
The law is good in the respect that it shows us our sin and draws on us to seek the Righteous One.
Does this include Missouri Synod Lutherans and all of the other Lutheran branches, or just the Evangelical Luterhans? Now I remember why I don't go to the Luteran church anymore.
I'm not a Lutheran anymore either. I know some really sweet Christians who still go there, but I can't anymore.
Those interested in a church-approved article on the report can go to http://www.thelutheran.org a free website of ELCA. Bring latex gloves and solvent. A short article but it gets really oily.
Great practice for reading between the lines however.
Neither does our LCMS.
Paul calls the law good even after someone has been saved. You imply that the only thing good about the law is to show we are sinners and once that is achieved, the law is no longer good ?
If you lined up all the violas in the world at the bottom of the ocean...that would be a good thing. ;)
Greetings to you as well! I'll be waiting for the next post on this topic. Please ping me if you see anything else come up. :) Joy and Peace
Paul calls the law good even after someone has been saved. You imply that the only thing good about the law is to show we are sinners and once that is achieved, the law is no longer good ?
Once we have been brought to repentance the law continues to show us our sin for we daily sin much. In that respect you could say the law is good. Paul says: l Tim 1:8-10 "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinner, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons,and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine:
Paul also says in Romans 10:4, "Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes."
That's a non answer to the question, at least to take the dogma literally. If the dogma intended to say that "this is the church's right and proper way of functioning" rather than "this is the church (i.e. body of all believers), period" wouldn't it read that way?
well not quite. it's about receiving Jesus Christ to come into you with His salvation... so that THEN you can live life to God's standards by means of Jesus Christ who will then be living in you. Anything less (i.e. just "trying to be good") is a mockery that will fail to get you to heaven.
what does this signify, is this essentially a bow to the cross, or does the altar mean more?
Being Calvinist means that too, right? :-)
FreeRepublic is intended to discuss political and societal issues, not bicker about the various doctrines of the various churches. there are several other web-spots for that (www.cat41.org is where I hang - all Lutheran, all the time).
This decsion by the ELCA affects society/culture because it encourages the queer agenda(benda!). Let us not use the bandwidth for doctrinal arguments.
I'm always a little leery of folks who refuse to commune or worship with anyone outside their denomination—even other strong Bible-believing Christians.
Are the Episcopalians and the ELCA Lutherans considered by you to be strong Bible-believing Christians? Would you consider fellowshiping and communing with them? If not, where are you drawing a line? Remember, a little leaven, leavens the whole lump. There is nothing sanctimonious about those who are members of the ELS and WELS. Have any of them ever pointed there finger at another Christian and called them bad? No. Just because they have set standards on how they approach the inerrant Word of God and desire that all who fellowship with them be in agreement with them does not make them sanctimonius. This nation requires all who desire citizenship to support the Constitution of the U.S. It is much more important to set standards in a church body than it is in government. Just look at what is happening to church bodies who don't support strict adherence to doctrine. They are fracturing. I would rather have people thinking the WELS and ELS are sanctimonius than allowing those in who would promote schisms like is happening in other church bodies. The promoting of the pure Gospel message is far to important than opening the door to everyone who claims to be a Christian in the name of being inclusive. An example, how many claim to be Christian and yet claim that the Bible doesn't speak against homosexuality? In your thinking, there would nothing wrong with communing with this "Christian", whereas, I see Satan at work to destroy the church.
All I mean by saying I'm "leery" is that I'd hate to dismiss any sincerely believing Christian (one who knows that Jesus is divine and Scripture is inerrant) simply because he or she isn't the same "brand" as I am.
I invite you to read the ELS statement on close communion and see where you disagree with it.
http://www.evluthsyn.org/Pages/Tracts/clcomm.html
When a person says that they are a member of the ELS or the WELS we know what they believe and confess. If someone were to come to the church and say they were a member of the PCA or some other denomination there is not time for the Pastor to sufficiently discuss with this person his/her stand on the church's profession of faith. Therefore, they are excluded from communing with those who are known to be of like faith.
Attendance at communion should not be judged on whether a person is a believer but upon profession of faith which the church professes. A person who believes that women in the church have a right to vote in the church, hold church offices or be pastors can be a believer but they do not profess the doctrine and belief of the ELS or WELS.
We left the Lutheran church nearly 2 years ago over the gay issue.
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